Amazons?

[MandyG]

Cage? Forget about a cage. You won't find a cage adequately big enough. You just have to strip a whole room and that is its cage.

I'm sure a full sized aviary would work .

I didn't realize they had a specialized diet though.

Basically this is how I would break down the cost of owning a single first time parrot. Expect to pay the price of parrot P + accessories at approximately same cost as P initially. So initial cost is 2P or twice the cost of the parrot. Then you can add the household adjustments you may have to make like cleaning supplies, replacing non-stick, getting lights, etc. These really depend on your situation but don't be surprised to spend at least 1/2P on this for your first pet. Finally expect to spend another P per year in consumable costs. In your first year alone, expect to spend anywhere from 3P to 5P and to continue spending from 1/2P to P for the rest of your parrot's life.

So according to your 'Parrot Cost Forumla' - 2P + 1/2P = 2($15,000) + .5($15,000) = $37,500 initial cost. Plus 1/5P to 1P for each year after which would be $7,500 - $15,000 per year for an average of 60 years for a total of $450,000 - $900,000 over the bird's life span. Ouch. I really hope your formula is a little off for the really big birds!

Sorry to hi-jack the post and to get so off topic.

[Michael]

You do realize that it's probably pretty true? Remodeling a room to be its cage could easily run $7,000 (1/2P). You could easily spend another $3000 in large stands, swings, and perches to furnish the Hyacinth's room with. If a play gym or stand for a small parrot often runs $100-$300, you can just imagine. You'd need to put a big tree in the middle of the room where it would live. I dunno figure $1,000 for that? The regular sized trees usually run about $400 but they are meant as a full time living place for a parrot so I'd imagine one large enough for a hyacinth could be about that.

Think of the dinky little toys for a small parrot running $10-$20 easily and lasting no more than a few weeks. So instead of hanging little nick nacks off a string, you probably have to hang like entire tires off a chain or something for it to play with. With a beak THAT big, how long do you think toys might last? You probably just have to buy a bunch of 2 by 4s and leave them in the room.

And now think about cleaning this little piece of parrot heaven? No, not poop off squirt bottle and paper towels.... More like running a hose into there and having a big sliding door to hose everything out.

Look, the fact is, my parrot cost formula is based on giving the parrot a pretty good living condition relative to its size. Yes it is possible to get a sub-size cage for an Amazon and cheap food and few toys and spend much less than I recommend. But in order to interpolate the quality of life we give our little parrots, to do the same for a hyacinth would seriously require this kind of expense!

If I wanted to use the same way I interpolated Kili's cage (18x18x30) in proportion to new Cape cage (by comparing their mass in grams to the volume of the cage), then the Hyacinth cage should be a room 20x40x12 feet! So basically, short of my bed space, I would have to give my entire apartment to the hyacinth to live cage less to give it a proportionately equal living space. Of course this formula is based on weight of parrots rather than volume (you have to quadruple weight to double volume??) but hey, even if I'm off by 50%, fact is you still need a room for a parrot of that size! Short of a massive outside aviary, I really cannot imagine any "cage" being adequately large enough to house one of those parrots.

I know my Parrot Cost Formula and Parrot Cage Volume Formula aren't exactly accurate, but I have noticed that it gives you a pretty good ballpark idea across species of what you can expect to spend. Sure you can give them less but is that fair? Look at a budgie living in a 15x15x15 cage and it looks plenty roomy but as I said, the macaw would require a giant room to have the same luxury. But instead, I've found that the bigger the parrot, the lower the likelihood that it has an adequately sized cage. I think the proportion of parrot price to cage price remains pretty consistent across the board but people get cheap when they find out the cage needed for their parrot is $500 or $1,000. I look at African Grey sized recommended cages and cannot imagine how they could possibly be adequate.

[MandyG]

I wasn't saying your formula was wrong, I'm just hoping it is for the sake of the people that have Hyacinths!

I don't want to tally up all of the initial costs that I incurred during the first year of parrot ownership, it would be a little too depressing . I'd say you're definitely right about spending 1/2 - 1P each year on maintenance though. The minimum toys I buy (from a subscription program) plus food (pellets) for this year will be over half of what I paid for Mojo. Then there's vet bills, additional toys, diet above and beyond pellets, etc. For Amazons I'd say your formula is pretty bang on.

[Michael]

And to think you got mad at me when I was bringing up being able to "afford" a parrot. The fact that you spend the cost of the parrot on initial accessories and then as much every year on food/accessories, it makes you realize that affording a parrot is being able to allocate yearly the cost of it. Someone can't "save up" for a few years to buy a parrot because if you cannot come up with it in one year, you won't be able to keep up with the yearly upkeep.

It definitely works for Senegal Parrot too and most parrots that I've researched. It doesn't quite work for budgies but that is only because they are under priced. The stores are basically giving the birds away at or below cost to lure you in to buy the more profitable accessories. I think if budgies were properly raised and individually cared for, they'd run you about $100-$200 and then the formula would work properly for them as well.

[MandyG]

And to think you got mad at me when I was bringing up being able to "afford" a parrot.

Yeah, yeah. I know. But I was also thinking that if they could save up that amount in a few months or a year then it would be affordable for them. If they could save up the 3P - 5P for the initial cost then they should easily be able to pay the 1P - 1.5P per year over the course of the subsequent years for proper care. It's a completely different story if they're saving up for multiple years though.

[Michael]

5P is getting really lavish. Almost always a suitable cage is 1/2P, play gym or tree is 1/4P, and remaining initial toys can be gotten with 1/4P. So 2P is what you spend to bring the parrot home and 1P every year thereafter. But the first year requires food/toys/accessories too so the yearly 1P applies too. So 3P is definitely what you have to spend in first year. The only way for it to be 5P or more is if you're like that guy we talked about from craigslist that buys a furniture cage. I highly doubt that the benefit of the terribly expensive cage goes at all to the parrot. It just costs more to please the owner. First off I don't mind the look of my cage, but secondly, I don't even keep the cage in plain sight. Either the parrot is away in cage or it is out and about. So I see little need for a super nice cage. If people want their parrot to be "in their life" I think it is better to have the parrot out rather than a cage in the middle of the living room.

[Natacha]

Thanks! My boyfriend took it.
The parrot was still a baby and was quite sweet. He actually fell asleep on my arm and I have to say, after a while, my arm felt numb! He was rather heavy.
One of my friends from Guelph, who also has parrots, totally fell in love with him. Unfortunately, she just didn't have the $25,000.00 the pet store wanted for him (the pet store had a booth at the show).

I imagine that he was heavy

Wow, they were asking $25,000 for him? Don't Hyacinth Macaw's usually go for around $10,000 from a breeder? At least that's what I've seen with all the research I've been doing lately.

As Mandy said, generally from the breeder it's around $15,000.00. This bird was being sold by a pet store, which generally means the price gets jacked up. Look at African Greys; generally from a breeder you can get one generally for $1,500.00 in Canada. Price from a bet store? $2,000.00 and up.

[TheNzJessie]

i ahve only ever had awesome experiences with Corellas. i love them to pieces defiantly research them. we have one at franklin zoo and everyone falls in love with him.

[SELIGMANS]

I know my Parrot Cost Formula and Parrot Cage Volume Formula aren't exactly accurate, but I have noticed that it gives you a pretty good ballpark idea across species of what you can expect to spend. Sure you can give them less but is that fair? Look at a budgie living in a 15x15x15 cage and it looks plenty roomy but as I said, the macaw would require a giant room to have the same luxury. But instead, I've found that the bigger the parrot, the lower the likelihood that it has an adequately sized cage. I think the proportion of parrot price to cage price remains pretty consistent across the board but people get cheap when they find out the cage needed for their parrot is $500 or $1,000. I look at African Grey sized recommended cages and cannot imagine how they could possibly be adequate.

I could not agree more with Michael and his theory. It is SO true about getting an appropriate size cage, not what is standarly recommended out there. I so do not agree with them, they need to be bigger. If I got the recommended size cage for my little Green-Cheek, I don't think that would be fair to him because he is extremely active like most birds are. He is mostly out of his cage anyway, but still all birds deserve more than adequate room and living space to move around, forage & eat, monkey around and play while they are in their cage). Same with Paradise, My Hahn's Macaw, her cage is a lot larger than what is recommended for a Hahn's. I will be upgrading her cage to a stainless steel one, too.

This is what I finally upgraded Kiwi's cage (link attached). It was his birthday present when he turned 4 this year (his old one was the same size but it was not stainless steel like this one, though): http://www.bird-supplies.net/grey-palace-stainless-playtop.htm

He was automatically drawn to the shininess of the steel like I thought he would since he loves to see his refection on anything that is shiny.

[kellybird]

Hi, I didnt get a chance to read all of the previous posts but I do have an amazon. I have a blue fronted Amazon. I did have 2 of them, sex is unknown and they were both from the same clutch. I had worked at a pet store when I was 16 and worked with them every day (they were both 2 1/2 when I worked there and they were already nasty and nobody wanted them because they werent babies anymore and you could not handle them) well I love training those kinds of birds. I was not afraid to get bit (and did many many times) and after months I earned the trust with the first one "Jr." and he even let me pet his back and turn him upside down in my hand. I had him a few months and realized I wanted "Tyler", he was the worst and would growl, bite, and do anything to get away from you. He ended up trusting me and nobody else so i spent all my hard earned money once again and purchased him. I still have him 16 years later, he will go right on my hand but will still not let me pet him. I think he was traumatized by other employees before me. This is totally okay with me. We have a trust between us. My husband has held him but he will growl but its all talk. I love him to death and think they are the most intelligent birds. He talks up a storm and picks up words easily. He been in about 3 huge cages before we custom built our indoor "aviary" for all our birds. He is in with my 2 meyers parrots, and senegal and shared a wire wall with my greenwing macaw. Amazons do tend to get overweight and I know he is. I have to watch lately. He does not care that no one is home during the day and adjusts very well to new environments. I have moved 3 times in the last 10 years and didnt bother him in the least. I would highly recommend an Amazon as long as you can withstand the noise level. Before my beloved JR. died the two of them would set each other off and you couldnt get a word in. Now I have a greenwing macaw and and Amazon is quiet compared to him lol. They do eat a lot and poop a lot as any bigger bird would do. If you have any other questions please ask away. I love to talk bird talk!!! Oh and we never did find out how Jr died, it was very sudden and no time for a vet. We do not know any of our birds sex except for my one Meyers Parrot and she is a female. They are very humorous and you would love one!!!! Kelly