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Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

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Is it acceptable to get African Grey as first time parrot?

Yes
14
52%
No
13
48%
 
Total votes : 27

Re: Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

Postby Brittanyv326 » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:37 pm

I don't think so at all. Me and my boyfriend really wanted an African Grey. Then we did some research. First of all, a first time bird owner (like myself) can be intimidated by a large beak. And I surely was. If the Grey were to bite one time, the owner may never pick it up again or begin a cycle of reinforcing the biting behavior by reacting so strongly to it. Knowing exactly what to do to avoid this behavior from previous experience with smaller birds in which the results would have been less dangerous and less painful is vital. Even when I got Sade, I asked the breeder right off the bat how to react to a bite. She was able to show me and explain how to discourage the biting behavior and after the first 2 days we've had no major biting issues. I don't think I could have held my hand steady if I was nipped by a much larger beak of an African Grey.

Secondly, the intelligence and the lifespan of African Greys is unbelievable. The equivalent to the intelligence of a 3-4 year old and 50-70+ years. How could an inexperienced person possibly realize what exactly committing to that means? I just felt as if I was not ready for it and rather than the extra research making me feel more ready, it made me feel less ready for it. It seems as if this is a common trend. I didn't want to run into issues of feather plucking/self-mutilation.

Thirdly, a major influence for me was the room that we have. We have a pretty sizable cage for Sade, 36''x25'', but it is probably maximum we could comfortably fit in our house and I wouldn't consider that same size suitable for a Grey. Not to mention flight. The wingspan of a Senegal compared to an African Grey is really a big difference. Eventually, Sade will be flighted and if Sade was a Grey, she'd probably run into things - our house is just not that big. 1,000 square feet disappears quickly with 2 people, a dog, and a bird! I know I'm talking more about my own specific situation here, I'm just pointing out that these are things to think about that most beginners probably don't.

Lastly, the bigger the size, the more money you put into it. Bigger cage, play stand, toys... Everything must be bigger and therefore more expensive! This was really easy to see for me, since I see the same thing with my dog. Bigger crate, bigger bed, more food, etc. It's just simply more expensive. For a beginner who is sure to miss some of the costs when initially considering a parrot, it may be overwhelming. I know I missed some of the costs when calculating. It was a lot more expensive than I estimated earlier. I'd estimate to start out with a Grey, it'd be at least $2,000. A beginner who doesn't even know for sure if birds are totally "their thing" may be hesitant to shell out that much money and may cheap out on a few things. And again, being a beginner, may cheap out on the necessities rather than the optional things.

Sorry to make this so long just to list out pretty obvious reasons! Well, not to take away from what I've said, but in some cases with a lot of research can be a slight exception as long as they have the effort to put into it. Mostly it is about effort as I've realized which comes with your mindset. If you just want something to look at and talk about, get a statue of a bird, don't get a real one. If you want a talker, get that stuffed battery operated talking macaw I've seen everywhere. If you want a lifelong companion and family member to love and take care of, then get the real thing.
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Brittanyv326
Conure
 
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Re: Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

Postby Michael » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:43 pm

notscaredtodance wrote:Alright now I'm just going to HAVE to retype that reply. Maybe more concice this time.


Thanks for posting yourself, sorry about the trouble.


notscaredtodance wrote:1. A starter bird, as pchela said, implies that this bird will basically be a "test" bird, and starter birds, for most, tend to mean cheap birds, like parakeets and cockatiels. These birds, if they die in 2 years, weren't a huge investment and although they might be missed, it is not a huge loss. So people feel more comfortable just "winging it", no pun intended. These birds will get the bulk of owner mistakes like cages with guillotine doors, wing mutilation (the extreme version of clipping), no vet care, an all seed diet, and losing the bird through an open door, a dog/cat attack, whatever.


So are you saying that by saying it's ok to go for a Grey on the first try will mitigate these issues? No. I do not suggest that people buy a cheap bird and see how it goes before buying a big one. I recommend they don't get a bird at all if they are irresponsible. Notice I never talked about starter parrots. I talked about birds for beginners. I want to know if people think the larger/more difficult parrots require more pre-requisite experience.

notscaredtodance wrote:2. It also has to suffer in terms of enrichment. Just because a smaller bird for the most part won't screech and feather pluck because it is neglected, doesn't mean it isn't suffering. Some budgie owners are great and very aware of their bird's needs, but most, me included when I had them, just let them chill in the cage with a mirror, some plastic bell balls, and a bowl of food and water.So if a person "successfully" keeps a starter bird, then goes to an african grey, no, i don't think they'll be prepared for what a grey needs.


Once again a reason not to buy a parrot at all rather than a starter parrot. However, the amount of enrichment a grey might require is many times more than for a budgie. The experience one would gain in exploring enrichment for easier parrots would make them better prepared for the more advanced things they might have to offer a bigger/complex parrot. I use bigger and complex interchangeably because I'm not aware of larger sized parrots with simpler needs. However, small parrots with complex needs would still fit in this category.

notscaredtodance wrote:3. For more species related problems and interaction (cockatoos being needy/likely to feather pluck, amazons being aggressive, macaws being loud) a person should be researching heavily, vising breeders of the species they are interested in, avian vets, and really getting to understand the good and the bad of that species. They should also be mildly aware of body language and sensitive to an animal's comfort level. I have recently started visiting an aviary consistently and can handle the quakers all the way up to the macaws because I respect the birds


As thoroughly as a beginner researches a parrot, they are still likely to miss many facts or underestimate the potential problems because they've never even dealt with them at least on a smaller scale. If someone reads that cockatoos scream they may not heed much warning and decide they can take it until they buy one and realize they can't. However, if someone has owned a Senegal Parrot and decides that is the maximum amount of noise they can handle (and it is considered a quiet parrot), then they will take the noise research very seriously. The same goes for biting, aggression, etc. Someone that has zero parrot experience cannot even guess at the scale of these issues and therefore has no experience to evaluate these things from. Yes, people who come from households that own parrots or who have interacted with them from time to time without owning may have some background. However, for someone who has never owned a parrot... are they really qualified to decide how much biting or noise they can handle? At least if they underestimate a "beginner parrot" and the biting is a big issue, it's still manageable and they will decide never to get anything bigger.

notscaredtodance wrote:4. For more mechanical things like not aware of the diet needs, clean up, noise, if a person isn't ready for that, they're not ready for most pets.


Yeah well if they are starting out with zero pet experience, they won't know that.
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Michael
Macaw
 
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Flight: Yes

Re: Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

Postby Michael » Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:04 pm

Brittanyv326 wrote:First of all, a first time bird owner (like myself) can be intimidated by a large beak. And I surely was. If the Grey were to bite one time, the owner may never pick it up again or begin a cycle of reinforcing the biting behavior by reacting so strongly to it. Knowing exactly what to do to avoid this behavior from previous experience with smaller birds in which the results would have been less dangerous and less painful is vital. Even when I got Sade, I asked the breeder right off the bat how to react to a bite. She was able to show me and explain how to discourage the biting behavior and after the first 2 days we've had no major biting issues. I don't think I could have held my hand steady if I was nipped by a much larger beak of an African Grey.


I absolutely and completely agree with you! :thumbsup:

When I bought Kili, I was just barely comfortable handling her. I wouldn't have dared pick up an African Grey or a Macaw. Since having her, I've learned so much. Not only about how to read the parrot or not be scared of it, but also how to hold it, how to approach it, etc. There are so many factors that are driven by our own body language. We can't make sudden moves around unfamiliar parrots but yet we must instill confidence. When someone is shaky, the parrot doesn't want to go on them and risk falling off (clipped). However, they fear people that are too bold or jumpy as well. So there is definitely this predetermined, deliberate, and yet slow paced approach that I've learned to use to picking up any parrot. And as I've been going back to the store from which I bought Kili, I've found myself holding parrots much larger. When I came to buy Kili, I had to have the store employees get her out for me. Now I help other visitors get parrots out that they want to see. Everyone was too chicken to hold this beautiful blue and yellow macaw they had out on a stand in the front and I was able to pick it up and handle it with confidence. This definitely helps when I scale down to owning a Cape full time.

Brittanyv326 wrote:Lastly, the bigger the size, the more money you put into it. Bigger cage, play stand, toys... Everything must be bigger and therefore more expensive! This was really easy to see for me, since I see the same thing with my dog. Bigger crate, bigger bed, more food, etc. It's just simply more expensive. For a beginner who is sure to miss some of the costs when initially considering a parrot, it may be overwhelming. I know I missed some of the costs when calculating. It was a lot more expensive than I estimated earlier. I'd estimate to start out with a Grey, it'd be at least $2,000. A beginner who doesn't even know for sure if birds are totally "their thing" may be hesitant to shell out that much money and may cheap out on a few things. And again, being a beginner, may cheap out on the necessities rather than the optional things.


I had no idea that I would end up spending soooo much when I bought Kili. Believe me, at the time I thought I "did my research" but I really had no clue what I was getting myself into. Luckily it worked out and parroting was right for me. Even if it turned out otherwise, I had committed to trying no matter what to make it work. However, if it were a macaw or something. Then I fear that no matter how much "desire" I may have had to make it work, physically it may have just been impossible. It took me nearly two years to work up the guts to handle the largest parrots. I admit to being cautious and what not but still to me it feels impossible for someone to jump into owning the more advanced or huge parrots.

From what I've seen, a lot of these macaws end up untouched by their owners. The owners merely open/close the cage doors. They may talk to the parrots but they never touch them. Perhaps if they had hands on experience with a smaller parrot that was easier to hold and play with, they would have known what to do when they got their bigger one. That is not to say get rid of or replace the little one. Either stick with just the little one and no need for big parrot. Or get so bonded to little one that it makes someone certain they want a big one as well!
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Michael
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Re: Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

Postby TheNzJessie » Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:51 pm

i think with extent research and talking with other people who have had African greys as a first bird then yes. i dont think there is a perfect bird to start off with. budgies are hyperactive. cockatiels are loud.larger parrots need a lot of different toys and interaction to keep then entertained
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Jango-:rainbow:
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:)
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TheNzJessie
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Re: Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

Postby Bear » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:23 am

In my opnion it really doesn't matter if a Grey will be your first or 50th bird, what matters is the research you put in, the commitment and time you have, and what you want from your pet.
For example someone may get a budgie as their first bird because they've been told to start with something small, the person may be bored to tears with a budgie and the bird may still not get everything it needs simply because the person isn't that into it so gets bored and the bird becomes part of the background, I've seen it happen.

I have a grey, and I never ever wanted one. In fact I positively disliked them as every one I'd ever met had been nippy or a biter. I know this is par for the course a lot of times with greys as they aren't too welcoming of strangers when they mature.
We got our grey simply because we saw him in a pet shop and were not happy with the conditions he was being kept in, he was very sweet, not nippy at all, my boyfriend had always wanted one...I'm a sucker for an animal in need, so home with us he came. We have never had a single problem with him, I have never been nervous of him for a second, he has never bitten or even threatened to bite us, he is simply a joy to have around and we have never regretted our decision for a second. I trust him completely. Even now I still wouldn't go to a strange grey and pet him, but because I know my boy inside out and raised him myself, I don't have a single concern about him. Obv he picks up on this and that is part of the reason we have had no problems. He is a very happy bird!!

I would never entertain having a Macaw though, their beaks terrify me and I wouldn't feel comfortable around them. We have a pair of Vosmaeri Eclectus who are large, much bigger than my grey, but again we trust them so its not an issue. Also with our new baby U2, I will never fear her because I will know her, and my point is I guess, its not so much the bird you get, but your level of confidence, and WHEN you get the bird. Some beginners take on a CAG that is older and looking for a home, then wonder why it runs rings around them...I would never take on an older CAG because I don't feel I have the confidence and experience to reeducate a biter who I do not know and therefore cannot trust, regardless of the size of the bird!

So long as people do a LOT of research, see a Lot of birds and chat to people who own them before making the decision then I don't think they need to start off with something like a budgie. People should be more concerned with what they want from a bird....CAG's are notoriously unfriendly with strangers and therefore taking one on is a huge commitment as should you change your mind in a few years, that bird will have a hard time. Plus if you're a couple you have to prepare yourself for the fac the bird may only bond to one of you, not a problem with a lot of smaller species, these are the factors, the personality factors, that need to be considered more than the size of the bird I think.

In conclusion, if you're happy with a bird that may only like one person for its whole life, that may not tolerate strangers, that needs a lot of stimulation and that needs a decent amount of room, then there is no reason not to get a grey if you're in it for the long run. If you're not sure about your decision, a grey is the last bird you shold be owning in my opinion :)
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Bear
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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6yr old male Vosmaeri Eclectus
2 month old Umbrella Cockatoo
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Re: Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

Postby TheNzJessie » Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:19 am

i have thought this over more and i believe a african grey is not a good FIRST parrot.
Qwil-:budgie:
Jango-:rainbow:
Jessie-ME
:)
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TheNzJessie
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Re: Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

Postby lzver » Tue Jun 08, 2010 6:40 am

Michael wrote:When I bought Kili, I was just barely comfortable handling her. I wouldn't have dared pick up an African Grey or a Macaw. Since having her, I've learned so much. Not only about how to read the parrot or not be scared of it, but also how to hold it, how to approach it, etc. There are so many factors that are driven by our own body language. We can't make sudden moves around unfamiliar parrots but yet we must instill confidence. When someone is shaky, the parrot doesn't want to go on them and risk falling off (clipped). However, they fear people that are too bold or jumpy as well. So there is definitely this predetermined, deliberate, and yet slow paced approach that I've learned to use to picking up any parrot. And as I've been going back to the store from which I bought Kili, I've found myself holding parrots much larger. When I came to buy Kili, I had to have the store employees get her out for me. Now I help other visitors get parrots out that they want to see. Everyone was too chicken to hold this beautiful blue and yellow macaw they had out on a stand in the front and I was able to pick it up and handle it with confidence. This definitely helps when I scale down to owning a Cape full time.


I will admit that I was much like Michael when we first got Lucy. I had done some research before we got her, but my husband was the one that wanted a bird. I didn't know how to handle birds and was reluctant when we first got her. And I hate saying this, but my husband is like many people .... he got bit really hard a few times by Lucy and now he is afraid to handle her ... even 4 years later. I have tried time and time again to coach my husband and get him to read their body language, but he's impatient. Once we got both Lucy and Jessie I spent a lot of time doing research and working with both of them. As a result they have both become my birds and now I am an avid bird enthusiast.

Michael wrote:From what I've seen, a lot of these macaws end up untouched by their owners. The owners merely open/close the cage doors. They may talk to the parrots but they never touch them. Perhaps if they had hands on experience with a smaller parrot that was easier to hold and play with, they would have known what to do when they got their bigger one. That is not to say get rid of or replace the little one. Either stick with just the little one and no need for big parrot. Or get so bonded to little one that it makes someone certain they want a big one as well!


After doing much research and considering a larger parrot, I have come to the conclusion that the bigger birds are not for me nor my family. My husband loves having the birds around and loves watching them, but won't handle them and my step-son is afraid of them so I had to consider that in the decision as well. Lucy and Jessie have come to mean so much to me and it's amazing the personality they have for being only 9" and 10" tall. I have an amazing bond with Jessie and as long as I respect Lucy, everything is good with her. Lucy is actually the one that is more interested in training and pays attention longer, so we enjoy that time together.

When I really thought about it and was honest with myself, I came to the conclusion that I would be happy with another Poicephalus parrot. I started asking myself why I wanted a larger parrot and I determined that Lucy and Jessie fulfill pretty much all of it. But the only reason I was able to come to this conclusion is because I have taken a lot of time over the past couple of years to learn as much as I can about parrots and I realistically know what it could be like having a larger parrot. I will continue to admire them in pet stores, parrot club meetings, conferences, etc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laura's Bird World Blog - http://laurasbirdworld.blogspot.com/
Jessie - Senegal
Lucy - Red Bellied
Kylie - Meyers
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lzver
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Types of Birds Owned: 1 Senegal; 1 Red-Bellied; 1 Meyers
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Re: Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

Postby Banksie » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:12 am

A parrot lives almost a lifetime - if you only ever intend to get one then how, exactly, do you gain experience in owning one? As has been pointed out, as long as you are prepared for the demands of an African Grey it's perfectly acceptable to get one as a first bird.

Different birds require different levels of care and this should be the consideration when purchasing one. That's all. Experience doesn't make any difference and, in fact, I'd question whether an adult with 'experience' of keeping a parrot is up for the job if their "beginner bird" isn't still around. Anyone who requires a "beginner bird" to practice on should not be allowed near animals. FACT!

I wish my Senegal would hurry up and die so I can get a proper parrot...
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Banksie
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Flight: Yes

Re: Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

Postby lzver » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:39 am

Banksie wrote:I wish my Senegal would hurry up and die so I can get a proper parrot...


I apologize because you are not a regular poster and I don't really know you ... but I sure hope you are joking with your last comment. A ;) may have sufficed if you were joking. There are a lot of Senegal owners on this forum that take pride in owning them because they are amazing little birds so I'm not sure this was the best thing to say. I'm going to assume you are joking, but you need to learn to express that. Comments like this can be misinterpreted.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Laura's Bird World Blog - http://laurasbirdworld.blogspot.com/
Jessie - Senegal
Lucy - Red Bellied
Kylie - Meyers
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lzver
Amazon
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 788
Location: Guelph, ON
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: 1 Senegal; 1 Red-Bellied; 1 Meyers
Flight: Yes

Re: Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

Postby Banksie » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:46 am

^^^ Yes, it's totally an ironic comment! I chose a Senegal for very specific reasons and I couldn't love a human child as much as I love him.
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Banksie
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Location: Hertfordshire, England.
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Types of Birds Owned: Senegal Parrot, 2x Budgerigars, 5x Zebra Finches, 4x Bengalese Finches, 2x Chinese Painted Quails, 2x Red-Eared Waxbills.
Flight: Yes

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