Is it acceptable to get an African Grey as first parrot?

[lzver]

^^^ Yes, it's totally an ironic comment! I chose a Senegal for very specific reasons and I couldn't love a human child as much as I love him.

I thought so Who couldn't love a Sennie

[Michael]

Different birds require different levels of care and this should be the consideration when purchasing one. That's all. Experience doesn't make any difference and, in fact, I'd question whether an adult with 'experience' of keeping a parrot is up for the job if their "beginner bird" isn't still around. Anyone who requires a "beginner bird" to practice on should not be allowed near animals. FACT!

This is absolutely NOT the sentiment I meant by the concept of owning a beginner bird. What I mean is that there are parrots that are easier, quieter, and less painful and thus more likely that even a beginner that makes many mistakes will be able to handle and overcome. These can be the first owned bird (they still require proper research, time, and dedication). Most likely and for most people this single parrot should satisfy all their desires in a parrot and they shouldn't buy any more. However, if this parrot awakens a desire to have more parrots, then the experience will make the owner more prepared to make decisions and handle parrots that may be more difficult.

I never, ever, ever suggested or supported the concept of getting a "starter" parrot to practice on and get rid of. If that is anyone's intention, they should never get a parrot to begin with. All I am suggesting is that perhaps there are some parrots that aren't suitable to be bought from the first time around.

[Banksie]

^^^ Understood...I too hate the idea of a bird for beginners. We agree that different species of parrot are vastly different and the only way to gain experience with a specific species (in this case an African Grey) is to own one. I see a person's prior experience with other species as almost irrelevant - the absolute key thing is whether that person can provide that particular bird with the necessary care to give it a happy life.

Extending this out, it's a shame that there are so many irresponsible people out there that get pets/have children(!) when they blatantly can't provide for said pets/children. This again, to me, is the important thing, not whether or not they've owned a pet or had a child before. Afterall, if we all took a similar attitude as this thread's to African Greys, none of us would have children...

Anyway, to sum up my waffle, I do think experience of owning a parrot could help but its contribution to a decision to buy a particular species of parrot (be that a Macaw or a 'lowly' Budgie) pales into insignificance when compared with a person's actual ability to devote the time, love and care required for that particular bird.

[Michael]

Much of this goes without say. Someone who can't devote time to a budgie, sure as heck can't to a grey. That is not my point though. And the experience requisite I suggest is moreso to help guide the decision rather than the care for the parrot. What I am saying is that how is someone with no parrot experience at all to jump into owning some of the noisiest, most aggressive, or most problematic of parrots? How can they give validity to things they've read if they haven't experienced it at least on a smaller and more manageable level. What I suggest is that owning a "less demanding parrot," or whatever this concept of beginner parrot might be, better equips someone to decide if they could handle and care for a larger or more demanding one.

There were so many assumptions I made when I first bought my Senegal Parrot. Luckily these things worked out for me but I could easily say (despite thinking that I "did my research") that I was missing at least 90% of what parrot ownership would be about. And that is after having the bird closer to two years. I wonder if in 10 or 20 years I'll say I was missing 95-99% as a well researched beginner. The simple fact is, you can do all the research in the world but it doesn't replace the experience of living with one full time for a few years. And even handling other people's birds doesn't quite count because their predisposition can easily be biased by their owner and how it is cared for.

[lzver]

There were so many assumptions I made when I first bought my Senegal Parrot. Luckily these things worked out for me but I could easily say (despite thinking that I "did my research") that I was missing at least 90% of what parrot ownership would be about. And that is after having the bird closer to two years. I wonder if in 10 or 20 years I'll say I was missing 95-99% as a well researched beginner. The simple fact is, you can do all the research in the world but it doesn't replace the experience of living with one full time for a few years. And even handling other people's birds doesn't quite count because their predisposition can easily be biased by their owner and how it is cared for.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Banksie]

Definitely true that it should go without saying but a quick browse of the birdtrader website suggests that some people simply don't get the message!

Of course experience of owning a "less demanding" parrot better equips someone to make an informed decision on getting a "more demanding" one but if it's a prerequisite to getting an African Grey, as you're suggesting, then it creates a scenario where the less demanding parrots HAVE to be bought/owned as this awful concept of a beginner bird. I don't believe that an AG cannot be the right bird for a beginner as long as that person has all the time etc. just as I don't believe that people without prior experience of children cannot have children as long as they have the time etc.

I think we could to and fro about this all day so I don't think we should get into a heated debate about it. I've simply stated my opinion for the nice people on the forums to read, which is that it IS acceptable to get an African Grey as a first parrot under the right conditions.

[Michael]

And as for children, not that it is a complete correlation, but there is a lot more preparation for that. Girls are prepared for having children since they were playing with baby dolls as children. Worst case scenario, young mothers can often receive help from their parents or friends cause after all, most people end up having experience with children. People take children out in public, we meet friends with children, there may be siblings, lots of movies and books about the experience of working with children, and to some extent I bet some of it comes naturally. However, with parrots it is completely different. There are few resources, their merits debatable, few other people with parrots that we can meet in person. For all we know our neighbors could have them and we'd never know (far neighbors or close ones with super quiet parrots ). The fact is that parrot ownership (unlike dogs for instance) is a very private matter so there is little chance, unless you know someone with parrots personally, to get to see other people's birds. They don't appear much in books/movies and when they do, they are usually grossly misrepresented as a cheeky thing that just sits around and says all the right things at the right time.

No, I really do not see how someone can just jump into it and get a really difficult parrot to start. If someone gets a macaw and gets bitten insanely hard right away, not likely they will keep the bird or even be able to overcome it. At least if they'd get a smaller/less aggressive parrot they would at least have the potential to get over the biting, stand their ground, and eventually work it out. With the knowledge of how painfully a little parrot can bite, they would be much better equipped if they could bear a bite ten times the size. Someone who has never been bitten by a parrot, hardly qualifies as experienced to make a decision if they can handle/overcome big biting just cause they "researched it" and read it in a book or talked to people.

When I was buying my Senegal, I was asking "intelligent" questions like "how loud is it?", "is this a healthy diet?", "what is toxic to this parrot?". Now I find myself asking "how do I manage aggression?", "how to deal with hormonal/mating behavior?", "how do I motivate better flight recall?", "how do I socialize it to other people?". None of these questions came up or could have come up when I was buying the parrot because there wasn't much way of knowing these issues or the magnitude of them until dealing with them. All I can say is that I'm lucky that the parrot is small enough that the bites are tolerable and quiet enough that the noise isn't an issue. Now when I buy my next parrot, I am equipped to ask the breeder very serious long term questions rather than the short sighted questions we ask as a beginner.

For some people, the biggest issue may be biting, for others screaming, but for someone else it might be the poop or endless chewing of our stuff. New owners may not realize that the chewing issue will affect them most or the screaming. Some people don't care about the screaming but then can't handle the chewing or something else. We can't learn what peeves us about parrots until we've lived with them. So the requisite ownership helps us learn what we can't stand and prevents us from buying a bigger more extreme version of that. At least when we start out with a small parrot, the poops are small, the bites are small, the screaming is small(er), the chewing is less damaging. We can learn how to deal with these issues and then decide if we could handle them on a larger scale.

[Banksie]

I think you're making some massive assumptions about people's likely reactions to certain events, such as biting. A beginner who gets bitten by a large parrot will not likely keep the bird or be able to overcome the problem? I don't know about you but if I owned an animal with which I had no prior experience, say a horse, and it kicked me, I wouldn't be giving it up! There are plenty of resources available to me that will help me avoid being kicked in future and help me understand why I got kicked in the first place. If being bitten by smaller birds is paramount to being able to cope with bites from larger ones then I've probably got a complete set! If you haven't been bitten by a finch then how were you ever prepared for a bite from a budgie? In fact, to a certain extent I am a living example that your assumptions are false...the first bird that ever bit me was an Umbrella Cockatoo - it was sat on my finger and just started knawing at my finger. I still have the scars! Suffice to say, this did not put me off owning a parrot. I didn't own that Cockatoo of course, so the example isn't completely relevant, but it still highlights that you're basing your opinion on assumptions.

Your logic extends down to ANY bird. How is anyone qualified to cope with the demands of any particular bird if they have never experienced owning one? You seem to admit that you weren't when you got your sennie but somehow you got through and you have learned. You can't assume that someone can't do the same with an African Grey. It'll be harder, sure, I'm right with you, but to rule it out completely just because someone doesn't have experience of any other bird is fallicious.

[Bear]

I completely agree with you Banksie. I have big horses and huge dogs, and if my horse tried to kick or bite me, or threw me off, I wouldn't sell it, I'd put more time into it's schooling and manners. Same with my dogs, and same with my birds

I think the problem is the people owning the bird, not the bird itself. If you enter into the commitment fully from day 1 and know what to expect and what you need to give, then there are no reasons it shouldn't work out fine. In my opinion most animal problems stem from their owners anyway. A horse/ dog/ bird is a blank slate, just like a human baby, they become what you put into them. True they have their own traits and tendancies, but there is no such thing as a bad animal, only one that hasn't experienced the right things and is reacting to this. I've never had a real problem with any of my animals, horses, dogs or birds, and I like to think it's because I'm firm, consistant and fair. Most of looking after animals is common sense and actually listening to what they are telling you. Picking a less intelligent or 'easier' bird as a first bird isn't the answer if its' not the bird you want, stepping up your own game and level of commitment is the issue

[Banksie]

^^^ those are my thoughts, put better! I think Michael is right that nothing prepares you for the reality of owning a parrot/baby/dog/horse. It's abundantly clear from a quick search on the internet that owning an AG is a massive commitment - if an inexperienced bird-owner reads up on them thoroughly and still decides that they want to buy one then I don't think it's unacceptable for them to get one as a first parrot. If they are committed to the responsibility and have the right attitude then, as you say, there are no reasons why it won't work out. It's all about the person and nothing about the animal.