GCC vs. cape parrot vs. brown-headed parrot (1st/only bird)

[CarlR]

Hey everyone... I've been reading, watching videos, etc. and lurking here for some time and am preparing to commit to my first--and only intended--parrot friend. I'm having trouble choosing between the three species in the title. I think they would all make a great companion, but I want to make sure I'm not overlooking anything.

Basically... what are the biggest differences (in general--besides price) between these birds? It seems to me that they are all similar in

• volume (I understand GCCs can be louder than the pois but are still suitable for apartment living)
• playfulness
• cuddliness?
• attention needs
• that they're less likely to become one-person birds than, say, a senegal parrot
• ability to coexist with another pet--we have a quiet dog that will NOT be interacting with the parrot physically

and that they differ mostly in size and appearance, and maybe a little in talking ability. Is that really it?

I live in south central Wisconsin and appear, due to apparent lack of breeders in the area, to not be in a position to personally handle either of the poicephalus, and if I purchased one it would likely have to be shipped to me. How much of a gamble is this? Is it pretty reasonable to expect that the breeder's experience with a particular baby is similar to what my own would be? Have people had bad experiences with this?

Thanks for any advice!!
Carl

PS: I've searched (not just on this forum) and have been unable to find direct comparison of even any two of the three species... I hope I didn't miss something obvious! Also if you have any breeder advice for WI, MN, IL, or even IA or IN I'd love to hear it!

[Michael]

Ok, while the "on paper" difference between the birds may seem to be similar (like quieter, playful, cuddly, etc)... I don't think there is much similarity between them at all. It's kind of an odd way to narrow down. Kind of like saying you want to choose between a convertible, suv, or truck when you found comparable models of each. People will frequently ask to compare a gcc to a cockatiel or a brown headed to a cape parrot. But when you take the three you did, you miss a lot of other things and those are going to be the things for you to decide on.

Have you seen the size of the beak on a Cape Parrot? You could probably fit half a GCC in there. Size is a huge difference and regardless of how it affects the behavior of the bird, it will play a big role on the owner. The way you handle birds of these different sizes becomes different. Because of this, how they behave will also be different. I can't directly compare a GCC but from what I hear they can be bossy/nippy too (entranced has a cape and a gcc so she can definitely give a first hand comparison) and the Cape is known to be bold. But I think there is a big difference when a little bird is trying to be bold compared to a big one.

The cage, space, and cost requirements will be vastly different. This is another reason it seems so strange to be comparing them. Most people who ask propose a budget first so we look at parrots in their budget. Of course if you can afford a Cape no less than a GCC and really just want to find the best parrot for you, this is a very good way of doing it. I think a Cape Parrot would do pretty well as an only bird. If you appreciate the size, can handle the boldness, and realize they can get pretty loud, it may be a good choice.

What other factors are important considerations for you? What do you want to do with the bird?

For instance if you want to compare on basis of flight capabilities (especially in small rooms) the GCC would probably be the best flier. Who is most destructive? Although the GCC can be quite destructive, it's smaller size just limits what it can do in the same amount of time. The huge Cape beak can break most woods, plastics, and even metals. Another important thing to consider besides volume is if you can live with the KIND of noise the parrot makes. To me, conure screeching is way more annoying than macaw calls so even though a macaw is louder I might find it more tolerable than the Conure. I probably find my Senegal's native screams more annoying than my Cape's although his are louder. So a big factor is hearing them in person and deciding if you can tolerate hearing that every day many times for many years. You don't want to get a bird that just drives you nuts.

Here are some articles about getting my Cape Parrot from a breeder and having it shipped to me:

http://trainedparrot.com/index.php?bid= ... ape+Parrot
http://trainedparrot.com/index.php?bid= ... +of+Parrot

Oh and welcome to the Parrot Forum.

[CarlR]

Thanks for the quick response!

Size is a huge difference and regardless of how it affects the behavior of the bird, it will play a big role on the owner.

I actually find the size difference more intriguing than intimidating. I realize bites from a bigger bird are more powerful and that the bird inherently has the potential to be more "dangerous" and difficult to handle, make a bigger mess, and are more destructive, but I'm prepared for this.

Of course if you can afford a Cape no less than a GCC and really just want to find the best parrot for you, this is a very good way of doing it.

Exactly. I intend for this to be my only bird purchase for at least a long, long time, and I am willing to spend a lot if it means I get the right bird.

What other factors are important considerations for you? What do you want to do with the bird?

The qualities that I listed as similarities between the birds are actually also the ones that I consider to be the most important. Playfulness and cuddliness are very high on the list (which is why I'm very hesitant to purchase a bird with which I haven't personally interacted). I plan to trick train the bird to an extent but also to just...observe and play with it.

I grew up with a cockatiel and surprisingly vocal senegal parrot and am not super concerned with (some) noise, regardless of how shrill it is. I also plan to provide the parrot with plenty of shreddable toys. My biggest concern is that maybe I'm misunderstanding something about the species--for example, they're all playful, sure, but maybe one species generally prefers to play more on its own than with a human? or one prefers to be handled less, in general? or something.

[Michael]

In that regard Cape Parrot is pretty cool. Mine loves playing on his own but also likes attention. Some parrots will tend to be too clingy or too independent whereas the Cape is a good compromise for a buys person who can only spend some time together.

Obviously a big difference between the 3 species you mentioned will be intelligence. And this can be as much (if not more) a bad thing than a good thing. Without writing a book about it, I'm just gonna give you the quick and dirty about parrot intelligence.

-All parrots are smart, can learn tricks, and vocalize to some degree. Even the dumbest parrot quite likely would sport a higher IQ than most mammals
-Typically the bigger parrots tend to be smarter (it's not absolute or linear but in your case would probably be accurate)
-The smarter the parrot, the more it needs to do. Smarter birds get bored more easily and a bored parrot can lead to depression, plucking, and other health/behavioral issues. A smarter parrot will go through more toys and require more variety as well as challenges.
-Dumber (just relative term) parrots will tend to be more forgiving on human mistakes. You grab the bird a little too hard today and tomorrow it forgets about it.
-Smarter parrots are more likely to hold grudges against people and be reluctant to let go of them. They think things through more
-Smarter birds tend to be more fearful and reserved about situations and changes
-Dumber parrots are easier to train (sounds backwards but remember how I said that all parrots are smart so you're already starting from there). The smarter parrots are more finicky and require a greater understanding of motivation and teaching. The dumber parrots (mainly parakeets) will do anything for millet any time. The smarter ones want more variety of treats and what works one day won't work another.
-Smarter parrots can learn to use vocalizations in context better, learn by observation, and learn more advanced behavior (both based on motor skills and intelligence).
-Dumber parrots tend to obey their owner more. Smarter parrots tend to be obeyed by their owner more. Since there is a ballpark size correlation, the bigger parrots have a stronger coercive power against their owner in their bite as well as in the behavior they do. For example when a parakeet lands on your couch and starts trying to chew it, you ignore, the parakeet fails, and the behavior goes extinct. When a large parrot lands on your couch and starts ripping the stuffing out, you freak out, the bird has a blast, and just learns to do that to get your attention every time. It takes a lot more self control not to be controlled by the larger/smarter parrots (both for their intelligence and greater power to coerce you).

So as you see greater parrot intelligence can be a lot of fun but for someone inexperienced it can be harder to overcome than anything. Aside from size and talking ability, the greatest difference between the three parrots you mentioned will of course be their intelligence. By intelligence I don't mean what they come equipped to do but rather their propensity to learn behavior with greater complexity or forethought as well as a higher requirement for intellectual stimulation and enrichment. For these reasons I suspect it is more detrimental (and leads to issues like plucking) to clip a Cape Parrot or African Grey than a budgie. The clipped budgie doesn't seem to terribly mind, the grey plucks its feathers out. So unless you specifically find that high intelligence appealing, I say stay away from it because it's a lot of trouble and a ton of work to overcome before you can get amusement out of it.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

I missed this thread up until now, hope a response is still useful. We do have a Cape and a GCC. Based on our Cape, which we got as an adult, I would not recommend them for beginners. Then again, I'm not sure Scooter is a truly ideal first bird, he's adorable but quirky! If you have experience with other types of animals, especially some training/behavior management, that will definitely help. I took to bird ownership readily, but I have a lot of experience with horses, and as different as a bird is from a horse, I am quite sure that helped immensely.

I can only tell you about the two birds we have, I don't have a ton of experience with different individuals. And it is difficult to really make comparisons even so, because they are such individuals, it's a bit apples and oranges (or convertibles and monster trucks).

Scooter, the GCC, started out liking both my husband and I equally, but this spring at age 2 started being aggressive towards Bill. This seems to be improving as spring fades into summer. He is far more demanding of attention than Scotty is. Scotty likes attention, but Scooter will at times literally beg for it. To our surprise, both birds are good talkers. I'm given to understand this is fairly rare for a GCC, but Scooter has a vocabulary of several phrases and he uses them all the time. In fact, he's named Scooter because we were using that as a nickname while deciding what to name him and he started saying it. Scotty came with quite a vocabulary and has added to it since we've had him. Scotty is somewhat slower-going than Scooter and much more willing to just hang out. Scooter is all go-go-go-pet me-pet me- pet me. Scotty does play vigorously and can be quite raucous, but he also will put himself in his cage and hang out quietly when he's tired of wreaking havoc. So will Scooter, eventually, but many hours later than Scotty! Scooter, being in general quicker, is also quicker to go to his beak to express himself. I think of it more as a lack of impulse control than nippiness, but he learns quickly things you don't want him to, such as if he nips at you when you are ignoring him and paying attention to the computer, it actually does get your attention. He's also somewhat prone to displacement bite me when he's annoyed at my husband. Scotty, on the other hand, has never bitten me, but he was biting my husband all too often when we first got him. Which was really not good with a beak that size. Fortunately he never gave it his full effort, but the beak is sharp as well as strong. We think the behavior stems from having been man-handled by males, but Scotty also does prefer me despite efforts to limit my contact with him. It's me he was regurgitating for all spring. Nonetheless, we have successfully managed to keep him friendly to both of us, although he plays more with Bill and cuddles more with me, when he can. It did take fair effort. And while I'm fairly novice with birds, my husband has had a lot of experience with them.

Micheal brought up the concept of intelligence. I do think Scotty is somewhat more complex in some ways than Scooter, but I'm not sure the relative intelligence scales with the size of the brain in the way we might naively assume. Both learn, and in some ways Scooter learns faster than Scotty does. He has less attention span. He does not speak as clearly or as well. But when it comes to the ripping-up-the-couch scenario, I'd bet on the little guy in our household. Don't underestimate their smarts. GCCs are more like "big birds" than you might think. I don't have direct comparison, but my husband says there is a HUGE difference between a budgie or cockatiel and a GCC and that the GCC is much more like "a big bird in a small package". The 'tiel may actually be larger than the GCC, but in comparison my husband labels them "dumb as a rock". Which I suspect is very unfair to 'tiels, since they are also said to be very loveable companions. Even my husband had one that he quite adored.

I guess the GCC is probably a more "suitable" bird for a beginner. If nothing else, when all else fails, you can pretty much pick them up with one hand. They won't necessarily respond well to it, and that little beak can make a pretty nasty wound if applied with vigor, but it's also not capable of cracking a macademia nut, so the bird is less likely to intimidate. OTOH, I find Scooter harder to keep behaving well than Scotty. The biggest problem I've had with Scotty was when he stopped stepping up on command and instead began saying "Step Up" and then grabbing my finger with his foot and regurgitating! With Scooter it seems its always something I'm trying to work with, although he's remained consistently loveable and affectionate --- except for about 3 days after I travel every time I'm gone for more than a couple of nights. He gets utterly furious with me then, and I cannot handle him until he's settled down again. That I have yet to solve, but I haven't found another bird of any species who does that, so it may be quite unique.

[GlassOnion]

I found this information on big bird vs small bird characteristics and enrichment to be very worth the read. I had a few eye opening moments while reading this information and found myself returning to re-read. I think every potential bird owner should consider the factors discussed above. You should turn this into a sticky.

[BonnieO]

I have both GCCs and Capes. I am a huge fan of the Capes and highly recommend them. I do rescue and am a small breeder and have seen a variety of birds over the last 25 years. My personal favorites are Capes and Severe McCaws. I fully agree that you should meet the bird before acquisition (no guarantee that it won't change with age or sexual maturity) but they are as individual as humans and they live a very long time. You should definitely make sure that the chemistry is good before purchasing your bird. Although the Cape (I have brown-necked parrots) has a very large beak, I have received very few bites and those were just little nips which rarely break the skin. On the other hand, the GCCs bite and hang on which, to me, hurts more. Also, I have found that my South American birds seem to be more difficult during breeding season than my Africans. When my Capes have eggs/chicks in the nest box, I can still handle the hen without risk of loss of body parts - no so with my South Americans. Also, when the Capes have chicks in the nest box, my hens let me handle them every day - something that will NEVER happen with my South Americans. Usually, the Cape hen goes to the entrance of the nest box and watches me but takes no action toward me. I find them be ge extremely intelligent, even in temperament, always willing to interact with me but seemingly equally happy to entertain themselves when I am not available. I travel on business and will sometimes be gone a week or more at a time. My husband is not a bird person and will take care of their basic needs but does not interact with them. My Capes never seem to suffer from the separation although they are happy to see me return. They do chew wood (lots of it!) and all of mine love to swing. Overall, they make wonderful pets!