Help.. we can't take it anymore

[tattoo]

We are totally at our wits end with Tattoo.. it's not the first time we have posted or seeked out help.

Maybe someone can help us....

He has always been a difficult bird from the get go. We got him from birth and its been an on going struggle. He was a sweet as could be until he turned around 6 months old. He is almost 4 now. He was always loud but we (my husband and I) could at least hold him.. I can no longer hold him less i want to get bitten. Not just a peck.. it's always for blood and he does not let go. I have tried over and over again to try different things, ask people for help, nothing has helped. Now I can not even hold him and my husband who is likes he still bites a few times a day. He is an amazing talker (very large and uses it at the right time) and smart as a whip... we give him attention, (a lot) he gets plenty of sleep.. infact he asks to go to sleep ("go nite nite) around 7- 7:30 every night and sleeps till 8. We tried getting another bird but she does not like him so that didn't help.(not that i can blame her)

we are at the point that he is going to need to be re-homed. He has turned our lives upside down. We have stressful jobs and when we get home he just never stops either talking (which is great) or screeching and biting. We just don't know what to do. We love him (even thought he bites the crap out of us). Maybe someone who knows birds or needs a beautiful, extremely healthy male bird that has a female that likes males would make him happy.

PLEASE help.

a desperate Bird lover mom

[Michael]

Have you considered leaving him flighted? This could be the solution (or at least a large part of it) because:

A) Flighted parroted tend to prefer to fly away rather than bite
B) Flight "forces" the owner to handle the parrot at the bird's pace
C) Flight uses up energy and mellows them out a bit

I know it may seem counter intuitive to let an aggressive parrot fly but if you work with it in the process, I seriously think it actually reduces a lot of it because Kili was becoming more aggressive before she was flying and flight solved a big portion of it. Socialization also plays a large part but without flight the bird won't trust other people to hold it without biting. But if it knows it can fly off at any moment, it will be more confident and less likely to bite. Flight training is critical to preserve tameness and interaction.

Oh and I suggest a regimented feeding schedule. It is my experience that an overfed Senegal Parrot becomes more hormonal and that leads to greater aggression. If you feed them just enough (feed + treats for training) and nothing extra then they don't have the excess to go into reproductive mode (but a exception needs to be made during illness or molt). By under-feeding in the cage (food management) and being the source of food out f the cage it will give you the power to choose which behavior is rewarded and which is not.

Here is the strongest advice I can give you, DON'T LET THE PARROT GET TO YOU! If you let the parrot manipulate you or your decisions with its aggression, everyone loses. You need to step beyond that and take a behavioral approach. Experiment which things increase and which things decrease aggression. Don't assume that just because the bird was nice to you before that it has to be now. Think as though you just adopted a vicious bird with no history that needs to be tamed. Get some leather gloves, start targeting in the cage cage, etc. Prevent the bird opportunities from biting and slowly work your way to tameness.

Can't help you with the noise though, that's just parrots for you. And Senegals are supposed to be the quiet ones. I really hope you work out the issues and keep the bird rather than rehoming. Odds are it will get passed around by people who care less than you do because they won't be able to put up with the aggression. Instead, break the cycle and set things right with self discipline, patience, and training.

[GlassOnion]

I would like to ask you: how big is the cage and what kind of enrichment do you offer your Sennie?

Perhaps he is bored and frustrated? Offer him a lot of different toys, foraging devices, WOOD, WOOD, shreddable material, etc. A busy bird is a quiet and happy bird. If you already offer him all these things, please ignore what I said.

[tattoo]

He has a large cage.. more like a house than an apartment. it's about 4ft high inside the cage where you will find, 3 foraging toys which we load up everyday.... a bowl of fresh fruit, a bird bread cupcake that i make, fresh water, a shredding egg crate sheet plus some other smaller toys.

i have really tried everything except for flight. my concern are several with flight. He already runs on the floor with his head down like a dive boomer and attacks my feet! and it hurts when he gets me. he always draws blood. second concern is that he flys and attacks peeps who hates him and can't fly. If he gets anywhere near him she sends out a high pitched alert like the smoke detector. and that our backyard is covered in trees so we have very few covering on our windows. Many years ago we lost a tiel when she flew into the window and broke her neck.

I am at my wits end...

[liz]

He has a large cage.. more like a house than an apartment. it's about 4ft high inside the cage where you will find, 3 foraging toys which we load up everyday.... a bowl of fresh fruit, a bird bread cupcake that i make, fresh water, a shredding egg crate sheet plus some other smaller toys.

i have really tried everything except for flight. my concern are several with flight. He already runs on the floor with his head down like a dive boomer and attacks my feet! and it hurts when he gets me. he always draws blood. second concern is that he flys and attacks peeps who hates him and can't fly. If he gets anywhere near him she sends out a high pitched alert like the smoke detector. and that our backyard is covered in trees so we have very few covering on our windows. Many years ago we lost a tiel when she flew into the window and broke her neck.

I am at my wits end...

I have a solution for attaching feet. I had to use it with my son and Rambo. Where long pants and shoes with socks. He can't hurt you. Just ignore his feet attachs. Don't respond and he will give that up.

[ginger]

I have 5 Senegals, all of the rescues. Each has a different personality and no two act the same.

One thing that jumped out at me when reading your post was the fact that you both have stressful jobs. Because you both work I wonder how much time your bird has out of his cage each day. If he's going to bed at 7:30 PM at night, then he doesn't seem to have much time to spend outside of his cage with you. Also, it seems as though he has the ability to get off his cage and walk around on his own and seek you out. The toe biting can be just that. One of my Senegals runs around on the floor to find me. Once he has, he bites at my toes to get me to pick him up, while another of the Senegals becomes very territorial on the floor and actually chases after my feet to bite them. Two very different scenarios.

The frustration you are feeling can also be a direct impact on the behavior of this bird. They are very sensitive and will pick up on the emotions you have, good and bad. So if after a hard day at work you come home and have this terrible feeling of helplessness with your bird the signals that you give off to him from the moment you walk in the door will fuel the remainder of the time you have with him that evening. Toys, foraging boxes, food, etc. are all the things that he needs during the day to keep him busy and stimulated, but when you come home all his attention becomes focused on you. You will set the mood for the time you spend with him. The aggression you speak of might be due to the frustration and anxiety he feels from you coupled with his own frustration.

This is not to say that you intentionally created this problem, only that it might have complicated a situation that started when he was six months old. It could be a simple thing that just multiplied and over time amplified itself to the point it is today. Ignoring a behavior, a specific body language, placing him in his cage without reward, etc. may have contributed to the behavior that is happening now. It is hard to say how things got this way without knowing more details.

I think that the best thing you can do is to start from this day forward with your bird as if he were a new bird to you. Training, understanding and much patience is needed to overcome the behavior you're describing. The training can be simple things like stepping up onto a perch instead of your hand. Especially if he bites your hand and is maybe unpredictable. Or, giving him a treat that he only gets when he returns to his cage. This may take days, he may already do it, but be sure to reward him every time he does. Make every experience that you have with him rewarding for you and for him.

Another thing, why do you feel the need to hold him? This isn't meant to be accusatory, but most birds don't like to be held. The ones that do are special and are typically species specific. For example, Cockatoos love to be cuddled, and cuddled, and cuddled. This can lead to behavior problems too. Once the cuddling stops and the bird doesn't want it to, look out. Aggression, screaming, plucking, and all kinds of other less desirable behaviors tend to come out. So, by any chance is it possible that your bird just doesn't "want" to be held?

I would love to help you. I believe I could give you some great pointers on what to do, but I would need more information. If you truly feel that you need to rehome your bird please consider a rescue where he can receive the best care to turn this behavior around. Otherwise you will be sentencing him to a life of being traded from owner to owner without the possibility for change. These guys live a long time. He has at least twenty years, if not more. I would hate to think of him being passed around from person to person without any sense of belonging to a flock.

If I were closer to you in proximity I would love to work with you and your bird, or just work with your bird, to help you turn this thing around. I really do think you can. It is just up to you to decide whether or not you can commit to the challenge. If you'd like to talk more, please send me a private message. I'll do what I can to help.

[liz]

I have 5 Senegals, all of the rescues. Each has a different personality and no two act the same.

One thing that jumped out at me when reading your post was the fact that you both have stressful jobs. Because you both work I wonder how much time your bird has out of his cage each day. If he's going to bed at 7:30 PM at night, then he doesn't seem to have much time to spend outside of his cage with you. Also, it seems as though he has the ability to get off his cage and walk around on his own and seek you out. The toe biting can be just that. One of my Senegals runs around on the floor to find me. Once he has, he bites at my toes to get me to pick him up, while another of the Senegals becomes very territorial on the floor and actually chases after my feet to bite them. Two very different scenarios.

The frustration you are feeling can also be a direct impact on the behavior of this bird. They are very sensitive and will pick up on the emotions you have, good and bad. So if after a hard day at work you come home and have this terrible feeling of helplessness with your bird the signals that you give off to him from the moment you walk in the door will fuel the remainder of the time you have with him that evening. Toys, foraging boxes, food, etc. are all the things that he needs during the day to keep him busy and stimulated, but when you come home all his attention becomes focused on you. You will set the mood for the time you spend with him. The aggression you speak of might be due to the frustration and anxiety he feels from you coupled with his own frustration.

This is not to say that you intentionally created this problem, only that it might have complicated a situation that started when he was six months old. It could be a simple thing that just multiplied and over time amplified itself to the point it is today. Ignoring a behavior, a specific body language, placing him in his cage without reward, etc. may have contributed to the behavior that is happening now. It is hard to say how things got this way without knowing more details.

I think that the best thing you can do is to start from this day forward with your bird as if he were a new bird to you. Training, understanding and much patience is needed to overcome the behavior you're describing. The training can be simple things like stepping up onto a perch instead of your hand. Especially if he bites your hand and is maybe unpredictable. Or, giving him a treat that he only gets when he returns to his cage. This may take days, he may already do it, but be sure to reward him every time he does. Make every experience that you have with him rewarding for you and for him.

Another thing, why do you feel the need to hold him? This isn't meant to be accusatory, but most birds don't like to be held. The ones that do are special and are typically species specific. For example, Cockatoos love to be cuddled, and cuddled, and cuddled. This can lead to behavior problems too. Once the cuddling stops and the bird doesn't want it to, look out. Aggression, screaming, plucking, and all kinds of other less desirable behaviors tend to come out. So, by any chance is it possible that your bird just doesn't "want" to be held?

I would love to help you. I believe I could give you some great pointers on what to do, but I would need more information. If you truly feel that you need to rehome your bird please consider a rescue where he can receive the best care to turn this behavior around. Otherwise you will be sentencing him to a life of being traded from owner to owner without the possibility for change. These guys live a long time. He has at least twenty years, if not more. I would hate to think of him being passed around from person to person without any sense of belonging to a flock.

If I were closer to you in proximity I would love to work with you and your bird, or just work with your bird, to help you turn this thing around. I really do think you can. It is just up to you to decide whether or not you can commit to the challenge. If you'd like to talk more, please send me a private message. I'll do what I can to help.

You are right on.

[Mona]

Hi Tattoo:

Ginger had a lot of great advice. I have two male Senegals that can bite and here are some very quick ideas:

1) I only step my boys up on sticks. I do not pick them up and handle them. If they want their heads scratched, they will let me know by lowering their head and then I will scratch....often between the bars of the cage. They do get out time but I don't handle them when they are out. They play on their own in approved areas. They are often in a separate bird room.

If you can't trust the bird not to bite, then just avoid geting in the situation where the bird bites. Can the bird still have a great quality of life and a very interactive relationship without being on "skin"??...Absolutely. These birds are playful, inquisitive, interactive and fun. You don't need to pick them up to have fun with them.

2) Any bird is capable of attacking feet. I noticed that several of my Senegals like to wander around on the carpet and will attack feet. Honestly, I think there is a nesting instinct involved. They also chew the carpet (in the bird room) and I think that might set up an instinct to protect the perceived "nesting area". The best defense is pretty easy. Always wear shoes. Pick them up with a stick or ladder off the floor. This is the easiest problem to fix.

You might also look to see if you are on a couch when you are handling your bird. I honestly do not handle my boys on the couch any more. Here again, I think they like to burrow down into it and it sets off "nesting instincts". The best way to avoid that problem is just don't work with them on the couch.

Michael has a lot of information on his blog with alternative ways to work with your bird.

The best strategy is to reinforce desirable behaviors as much as possible and try to head of the undesirable behaviors by paying close attention to your bird and figuring out what might trigger the undesirable behavior.

I have to go but you are getting lots of good advice.
Thanks

Mona

[Mona]

One other thing I wanted to add....for a "biter" the best way to manage them is to "target" them to where you want them to be...

Michael has a lot of good information on target training. I really, really, really recommend reading up on it and giving it a go. Targeting is a great way to build a healthy, fun relationship with your bird without risking a bite....especially, if you are having a biting problem. Also, Senegals tend to really LOVE the opportunity to do targetted behaviors - so it is simply a win-win for you both.

Thanks!

Mona

[entrancedbymyGCC]

Can you get a bona fide behavioral consultant to work with you? It sounds to me as if you are at the point where you really need someone who can be there physically and work with the bird and with you.