Finding the right parrot

[KayMarie]

Hello everyone!

I am looking to get a parrot (in the not-so distant future) and was hoping that some of you have some suggestions for a starting-off point.

I have wanted to get a parrot since later on in my high school years. I should be finishing my masters degree in a year. I plan to get a parrot after that, but while I have been looking into various parrots, there are just so many! It is hard to even find a starting point. And I keep running into contradicting information.

Experience:
My experience with birds is...sporadic. We had love birds and a budgie when I was young, but we gave them up when we moved to the mainland. We spent summers at my grandmother's aviary helping to feed and wean cockatiels, GCCs, and the occasional sun conure. In high school we had 5 GCC (2 former breeders that were never hand-tame) and 3 that we weaned on our own. We also had a semi-tame sun conure, also a former breeder. (I use that past-tense because they are my parent's birds and I no longer live with them. So "they" have, while "we" had)

Size Considerations:
So I was a part-time owner for these birds, and this bird will be my first. I like the size of the sun conure, I am partial to birds around that size or a little larger. But not much larger. Mostly because I've been bitten by an amazon and by a sun conure, and frankly: if I'm going to be bitten, I'd prefer to be bitten by the conure.

Noise Considerations:
I am also looking for a quiet(er) bird. This is not meant as a comparison to the birds listed above, but is a statement of fact. My life-plan, as it is, involves a townhouse. If I end up straying from that, then all is well, but while I never minded any noises our birds made, I figure any future neighbors might. While I know some of this is dependent on the bird in question, I know some breeds have reputations for being quieter or louder than others.

Other Considerations:
I am looking for a bird that is going to want to spend time with me. However, knowing me, I will want more in the future. And since I will be living in a small space, they will need to get along with other birds without fighting when they are out of the cage. I can do separate cages.but wont have the space for everyone to have their own playground/climbing trees/whatever. Again, I know some of this is dependent on the individual birds in question, but I know some breeds have reputations for being more territorial than others.

I want to than you in advance for your help

[Zanizaila]

I'm thinking a pair of Poicephalus (Meyers, Red-bellied, Senegal... ), Pyrrhura-conures , or Cockatiels perhaps?
A pair so they have the companionship of each other. Not only are all parrots flock animals from beak to tailfeather, it will only help you because no human can really give them what they need, and then you won't have to feel guilty if you will be home late one day or are too tired to take the bird out one evening.

I don't know much about the Pyrrhura-species, but I have experience of both Poicephalus and Cockatiels, and they are all more or less small and "not-too-noisy" (I won't call any bird quiet ).
I say get a pair and get them a cage at least one meter wide (I personally would not put Cockatiels in anything less than two meters wide, they are true fliers), and both you and them will be better off.

[KayMarie]

I've been leaning more towards a Poicephalus since I've started my research, but I am by no means locked in on anything.

My first bird-friend was a cockatiel named Zeus. While I like them well enough. I have to admit I enjoy the personalities of the more clownish conures better. Frankly, I love watching birdie acrobatics. I am shying away from conures because, well, I love the larger parrots. I love Congo Greys, but definitely will not be getting one any time soon. And probably will not be getting one ever. The Poicephalus have seemed like a happy medium.

I leaning strongly towards a Senegal until I started looking at posts on this forum and they started to seem really unpredictable. The posts on this forum have me wondering: are Senegals really very much better/worse than the average bird when it comes to biting? In some ways it seems that the rules that apply to other birds (like don't sneak up on it and leave it alone if it wants to be left alone) are all the same and as long as you are prepared for it, there shouldn't be any major problem. On the other hand, some of the threads I read make them seem like a super-vigilant evil-doers that will bite you as soon as look at you.

[Zanizaila]

Hmm... Saga is a Meyers, which is said to be one of the "mildest" species of Poicephalus, and she's more than a handful when she... you could almost say she has her period.

It often happens during spring and fall, but she's been more mellow the last year (she's eight now), thankfully. Before that, I had to throw myself on the floor with my hands on my head when she came flying, because you never knew what mood she was in.
I have no idea how many times I was bitten in my hand because she thought it was fun to come flying and land on the hand I had on the computer mouse. Needless to say, I soon got very fast reflexes on that hand.

A couple of years ago, she learned to attack dive from doors and curtains. Once she came crashing out of nowhere, landed on my head, feet holding onto my headset, hanging upside down and biting me in the neck, before I realized what was happening.

Here are just a few of the bites she's given me over the years: http://imageshack.us/g/810/fingerlip.jpg/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frT353_VcNI

So if it's true, and she's a normal "mild" Meyers, I do NOT want to know what a female Senegal is like. (Because in the Poicehalus group, females are worst, and you should not keep two females together.)

Perhaps she is even milder than many other Meyers, since she is kind to other birds. I even managed to house her in the same cage (about 40" wide - I would BTW not ever advise anyone to house Poicephalus with smaller birds in any cage, I was forced to) as two budgies. She had been without a cage for months and had been sleeping in their cage (which was a rebuilt wardrobe, with door open 24/7), but was then stuffed into another cage with them for over a year, without any "major" accidents.
(They were later rehomed to a zoo, but from what I've been told by other owners of Poicephalus, if that had been their bird, the budgies would be dead right away.)

Another parrot group I came to think of is the Pionus - they are a little bigger than the Poicephalus, but are by many seen as the "perfect" parrot. Smaller than an amazon, not too big, not too small, not particularly loud or aggressive. (But as with all parrots, they can become hormonal at times, particularly the males.)
http://www.parrots.org/index.php/encycl ... ed_parrot/
http://www.parrots.org/index.php/encycl ... ed_parrot/
http://www.parrots.org/index.php/encycl ... ed_parrot/
http://www.parrots.org/index.php/encycl ... ed_parrot/
(Note the "tabs", such as care.)

If I didn't have Saga, I would definitely get myself a pair of Bronze-wings.

[111olbap]

I've had a senegal for several years. He has never bitten anybody. Not even gently. He's the sweetest cuddly bird I've ever seen. He is extremely predictable and gentle.

I think what it comes down to is this:
Buy your bird from a local breeder- one who does it more as a hobby than for the profit. All the babies will have been hand raised and fed, and the bird won't attack its giant bird friends (people),


It may not be true of all Senegals, but my boy is very gentle, and his two sisters and mother are gentle too.

A parrot's behavior is influenced by its past just like people. If it has only known people as a cuddly affectionate food delivery service, they will not be mean.

Obviously if the animal is in extreme distress itll clamp down on you, any parrot will. It's because its grabbing on out of fear like a hug so you'll protect it. It isn't out of malice.

Senegals are fantastic birds.

[CinnamonParrots]

it seems like everyone here thinkssomething in the poicephalus family would be great. The species mentioned above has mainly been senegals. But I'd also like to direct your attention to the Brown-headed parrot. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown-headed_Parrot there's a Wiki link for you to take a look.

They are not as common as other poicephalus species but my friend has had one for over a year, and hand raised him herself, I've also met someone who had one too in my city. They are quite the little sweethearts, and I think you'll enjoy their disposition. I feel they are calmer than both senegals and meyers, but play just as well on their own.

With regards to conures, there are several species that are not AS loud, but conures definitely have very strong personalities, black cap conures are quite the charmers, and if you want something a bit larger, gold cap conures are a good choice, but they are on the slightly. Or even blue-throated conures.

OH! If you want something bigger but still in the poicephalus family, you can even try the 3 different species of Jardine parrots, or even an uncape/cape parrots, I am a huge fan of their amazing personality! I've met breeder capes that were the sweetest and very friendly to everyone!

[Zanizaila]

I do not agree with getting a bird from a breeder, even a "small-scale" one, and certainly not a hand-fed baby. As bird expert Greg Glendell sais, hand-feeding should be renamed "parental deprivation", and it can cause severe mental issues in parrots.

Puppies and kittens must stay with their mother for months to learn the necessary skills of their species from her, to learn how to be a dog or a cat - in some countries there's even a law that you can't take them from their mother until a certain age.
Do we really think we can raise an "alien" species like a parrot (they are very different from us after all) just as well as its parents? Or force them to believe they are people without any side effects for the bird?

On top of that, hand-fed birds are often force-weaned too early, so they can be sold sooner, thus increasing income for the breeders. Even so-called "good" breeders do this - it is "common knowledge" among many people that even large toos and macaws can and should be weaned at 16 weeks of age, but this would never happen in nature, where the young decide themselves when they are ready to eat on their own. (This can take up to a year for larger parrots.)

[CinnamonParrots]

Oh Zanizaila, I absolutely agree with you. I threw in the hand raising herself without thinking about that implication in the entirety of this discussion. That is a whole and very serious topic of discussion because I too feel that birds should not be weaned too early, and that happens in pet stores, with breeders and especially with psychological set backs even for Homo sapien spaiens when certain precautions are not taken into consideration. I mean we would never think to have a chimp raise a human child. With that said, my friend does have experience weaning birds, they are weighed daily and given a varied diet and socialized with birds to establish proper skills. But that will never be equivalent to what bird parents will do for them in the wild.

However, it is difficult if ever that anyone really successfully co-parented chicks, and therefore the easiest route most people take is to hand raise babies without parents. I do not know if there are breeders that co-parent chicks, or whether they remove chicks from parents at a much later time, such as when the chick is at 2-3 feeds and is almost a juvenile and then have tamed well behaving birds. But I bet it is very do-able, but just not as "fast" as the market demand I suppose. After all, we know how the "consumer" has a very poor tolerance for patience, that's why everything in our world is ready made for us lol.

However, I am no expert, and I've always felt that if baby chicks were not raised by parents, raising them at a later age, and together establishes much better social skills. It is impossible to domestic birds the same way we do mammals, and their behaviours are very different. Birds seem to respond psychologically well when hand raised but with other birds in the same "nest". It would be nice if cognitive scientists can actually do a longitudinal study on the effects of hand raise vs. parent raise vs. hand raise + sibling parrots on psychological development of a particular given specie so that we can have our questions answered, at least partially.

I'd also like to point out that having parent raised chicks is 1 part of the solution, but some behavioural problems may arise from the parents, many breeding birds are not allowed to "break", nor are they provided with adequate housing in general. Most people who breed birds do not keep them in the necessary environment to facilitate healthy breeding. Also, diet consumed by the parents are often neglected, not to mention a lack of exercise, without proper housing, these birds usually aren't flying...many breeding birds don't even have toys to play with. So I am sure these factors are also quite influential for the future development of chicks, not sure how significant, but nonetheless important.

[Avialae]

There are actually tons of scientific studies out there when it comes to the effects of hand feeding, done both on parrots and other animals, both birds and mammals. They all show the same results though no matter the species; parental depravation increases the risk for psychological problems, inhibits the developement of normal behaviour and increases the risk of stereotypic behaviours, this is known in everything from rats to macacs and chimps. For example, one study of African greys showed that these birds were much more likely to suffer from different kinds of behavioural problems and agression when hand fed.
(Here is the abstract: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 9105002947)

One of my senegals are parentfed, she's 9 years old now, has never drawn blood from anyone as far as i know, and is the biggest cuddle-bug there is. She gets along with- and loves everyone, both birds and people. This of course has a lot to do with both genetic predisposition and how the bird has been socialized/handled as well. Still, generally, even though anecdotes are not the same as evidence, my experience with parent fed birds (mostly senegals, but i've dealt with everything from macaws and cockatoos to parakeets) is that they are generally much more well behaved, gentle and healthy birds as pets and over all when raised by their parents.
Based on my knowledge and experience i would never even consider buying a hand reared bird.
(And lucky for us, it looks like it will soon be illegal to handfeed birds here in Sweden!)

[GlassOnion]

I believe in co-parenting