Starting with Breeding

[Anneke]

Thank you, Zanizaila. Your words definately made me think. I'm not sure whether there is an overpopulation here in Christchurch, but I guess I don't NEED to breed. I do think, though, that there can't be too much harm in breeding since, if the mother is laying too many eggs one season, I can just take out the nest boxes the next season and she'll stop, right? I will be careful, though and find out as much as I can first, and jump into breeding, prepare. Oh, and I do have an income, and my parents are always there. ( Though I don't really want to use their money.)

My older sister bred with cocketiels and lovebirds,( and I think budgies, too ), for many years, while we were still in South Africa, so she definitely knows how it's done. I will have someone who I can go to for help, anytime, therefore.

Usually on Trademe, (a bit like ebay/amazon) baby birds sell with ease, so I think mine will sell, too, especially if I breed with cocketiels - I think there are usually more budgies for sale rather that cocketiels.


Just wondering: Does everybody here feel the same whay as Zanizaila?


@Liz: Sorry, I guess I understood you completely wrong.

[Michael]

Just wondering: Does everybody here feel the same whay as Zanizaila?

Yes. This has been discussed to death before. There is a handful of professional breeders with extensive breeders and aviaries who really know what they are doing and spend full time on it. Then there's all the wannabes who think it would be fun to do a few times. They really aren't doing justice to the birds nor the people who get them. You don't know if the genetics of the parents are suitable or how well matched they are. Larger breeders (that are any good at least) let the parrots choose their own mates out of a large selection. When you just buy two parrots and stick them together, it doesn't mean they'll get along, mate, or produce good offspring. Furthermore, the breeders are usually using wild caught parrots while hobby breeders are just going with the birds they bought from a breeder. This leads to inbreeding and poor offspring. Please don't go breeding parrots just for the fun of trying it.

[GlassOnion]

I don't like how most breeding parrots are set up and are meant to live in what I consider inadequate flights their entire lives, for the purpose of producing babies to make their breeders' money.

I think it's cruel to use wildcaughts and would rather have breeders have a relationship with their breeding birds and co-parent (a small number of respectable breeders in the world do this)-- but that aside, I'm with Zanizaila and Michael.

[laducockatiel]

Liz, you know that you can discourage breeding by limiting daylight hours in the spring and NOT providing a nest box.

If the hens still lay eggs, you can replace them with fake ones. You don't have to let them have babies when there are already so many Cockatiels filled up in rescues and on Craigslist ads.

Where can I get the eggs? I know the new families are good to them but I ould prefer these families to adopt from rescues or private owners who don't take care of the tiels.
How long will they sit on their fake eggs? If they have eggs in the nest will my girls continue to lay eggs or does that shut down?
It is worth a try.

eBay it

[liz]

If there where no breeders - existing animals would have more value and be sold to people who really care about them and respect them.

[laducockatiel]

If there where no breeders - existing animals would have more value and be sold to people who really care about them and respect them.

Yep

[cml]

If there where no breeders - existing animals would have more value and be sold to people who really care about them and respect them.

Yep

While I agree with you and I really think all the poor birds that are being shuffled around deserve a loving home, having no breeders at all isnt a valid tactics either.

If you do as you suggest, the bird hobby would die out in a few decades as no new offspring would be introduced into the population. As importing parrots is illegal in many countries, this would mean an end to the hobby.

I think that instead of just saying all breeders should stop, I think that its better to keep a healthy and positive ratio in breeding. Of course this is hard to manage.

I also dont really get why all breeders get so much crap on this and other forums, that they are mostly greedy and bad people. Is this how it is in the states?
All the breeders I know (and I know a few quite well, we have regular meetings here in our bird association, with members from all sides of the hobby, breeders, pet keepers, enthusiasts etc) make little or no money from it and do it because they have a huge interest in the bird hobby. They care for and love their birds, and definatly dont do it to make money.

[liz]

If you read back on my old posts you will see that I think 3 years would take care of it.

[Michael]

I think the best breeders are generally the mid-scale breeders that dedicate to it full time and get by on it, but aren't big enough to be a mill. Mills are terrible for obvious reasons including over population, lower standards, lack of personal attention, etc. But the small hobby breeders aren't sufficiently experienced, lack facilities, lack suitable breeding stock, and cannot guarantee their offspring. The mid sized breeders can be careful about who they sell to but also without getting involved in too much micro-management. Small breeders cannot guarantee to get their birds sold off while they are still at a suitable age. Hobby breeders do not follow supply/demand. They breed because they feel like it or because their birds happened to make offspring. The larger breeders can have a better scope of supply/demand and avoid diluting the market too much and lowering prices. The hobby breeders (especially every kid who thinks it would be fun to breed their budgies) dilutes the market with so many birds that buyers treat them as cheap throw aways and the rescues can't keep up. Of course there will be exceptions but in general it's best to avoid breeding because it's fun rather than because there is a sufficient demand (and supply of good homes) for the babies.

I also dont really get why all breeders get so much crap on this and other forums, that they are mostly greedy and bad people. Is this how it is in the states?
All the breeders I know (and I know a few quite well, we have regular meetings here in our bird association, with members from all sides of the hobby, breeders, pet keepers, enthusiasts etc) make little or no money from it and do it because they have a huge interest in the bird hobby. They care for and love their birds, and definatly dont do it to make money.

They aren't necessarily doing it for the money. But often they are doing it for prestige, fun, respect, etc. So even if they aren't doing it for money, the bird's safety, health, and best interests aren't necessarily in mind.

Another reason some people hate breeders is because many of them are backward and old fashioned. They perpetuate idiotic myths (like clipping, punishment, flooding, etc) merely because it's easier for the breeder to raise birds this way and not because it is best for the bird's well being long term. Then people hold onto these things simply because their breeder told them so. Since it's the first thing they heard and they respect the breeder's "expertise" the are reluctant to let go of these things. Just because a breeder deals with baby birds does not mean they are right or that this applies to parrots long term.

I'm not against dedicated parrot owners buying a parrot for life from a breeder. I do support people who adopt instead of course. But I most disagree with people who want to bring more parrots into the world than that there are suitable homes for just for their own self-enjoyment of playing "breeder."

[laducockatiel]

I think the best breeders are generally the mid-scale breeders that dedicate to it full time and get by on it, but aren't big enough to be a mill. Mills are terrible for obvious reasons including over population, lower standards, lack of personal attention, etc. But the small hobby breeders aren't sufficiently experienced, lack facilities, lack suitable breeding stock, and cannot guarantee their offspring. The mid sized breeders can be careful about who they sell to but also without getting involved in too much micro-management. Small breeders cannot guarantee to get their birds sold off while they are still at a suitable age. Hobby breeders do not follow supply/demand. They breed because they feel like it or because their birds happened to make offspring. The larger breeders can have a better scope of supply/demand and avoid diluting the market too much and lowering prices. The hobby breeders (especially every kid who thinks it would be fun to breed their budgies) dilutes the market with so many birds that buyers treat them as cheap throw aways and the rescues can't keep up. Of course there will be exceptions but in general it's best to avoid breeding because it's fun rather than because there is a sufficient demand (and supply of good homes) for the babies.

I also dont really get why all breeders get so much crap on this and other forums, that they are mostly greedy and bad people. Is this how it is in the states?
All the breeders I know (and I know a few quite well, we have regular meetings here in our bird association, with members from all sides of the hobby, breeders, pet keepers, enthusiasts etc) make little or no money from it and do it because they have a huge interest in the bird hobby. They care for and love their birds, and definatly dont do it to make money.

They aren't necessarily doing it for the money. But often they are doing it for prestige, fun, respect, etc. So even if they aren't doing it for money, the bird's safety, health, and best interests aren't necessarily in mind.

Another reason some people hate breeders is because many of them are backward and old fashioned. They perpetuate idiotic myths (like clipping, punishment, flooding, etc) merely because it's easier for the breeder to raise birds this way and not because it is best for the bird's well being long term. Then people hold onto these things simply because their breeder told them so. Since it's the first thing they heard and they respect the breeder's "expertise" the are reluctant to let go of these things. Just because a breeder deals with baby birds does not mean they are right or that this applies to parrots long term.

I'm not against dedicated parrot owners buying a parrot for life from a breeder. I do support people who adopt instead of course. But I most disagree with people who want to bring more parrots into the world than that there are suitable homes for just for their own self-enjoyment of playing "breeder."

The breeder that I got Ladu from kept her birds in a separate bird room. Ladus parents are pet birds not just breeder birds, so she didn't just have them for breeding purposes, she loved them and took great care of them. When I got Ladu, she asked me to handle him and asked me a few questions about cockatiels, this was a kinda test to see if I had done my research and to see if I could look after a cockatiel. So, obviously, she really cared for her birds and wanted them to go to owners who could look after them and love them. She even provided Ladus favourite treats and the seed mix he was weaned onto for free.

Unfortunately, not all breeders are like this and they just care about money. They just keep birds in harsh conditions, now I am not saying all are like this, just that some are. This is cruel and I hate this, if the breeder I got Ladu from didn't care for birds at all, I wouldn't have got him, I would have just got a rescue.