First Parrot - Electus or African Grey

[GlassOnion]

Yes, but a breeder who will start getting a baby accustomed to a harness has to handle him more often and in ways that may otherwise not happen, ie. lifting under the wings. There is no reason for a reputable breeder to refuse doing it for you, I'd be leery if the breeder didn't want to. Why exactly wouldn't they want to? Cause they're lazy and it's extra work?

To be fair Michael, Truman's breeder is a HUGE breeding operation and will ship out wholesale as well as unweaned chicks to kids. Probably doesn't have the time or the dedication to sit there with a single chick and play with the harness.

[maillet]

What do you guys feel about having a parrot's wings clipped?
How many of the primary feathers do you have clipped?
Do you have regrets about one or the other?

Can a bird with unclipped wings injur itself easily indoors?
Will a bird with clipped wings appear less happy than before?

[pennyandrocky]

when igot both my birds they were clipped.now that they both have flight they are much easier to care for. my personal opinion is why get a bird to take away flight.when my cockatoo came to me clipped her whole chest and neck was bald since she gained flight fully feathered to busy flying to chew feathers off.not one injury with flight

[Michael]

What do you guys feel about having a parrot's wings clipped?
How many of the primary feathers do you have clipped?
Do you have regrets about one or the other?

Can a bird with unclipped wings injur itself easily indoors?
Will a bird with clipped wings appear less happy than before?

People buy parrots and clip their wings because they want a pretty looking, talking, hamster (that can't go anywhere or get away from them when they aren't treating it in a way that it accepts). They try to physically turn it into something that it's not. Then they make up myths and excuses against flight to justify themselves (cognitive dissonance). Parrots that are raised flighted, kept flighted, and encouraged to fly become ace indoor fliers and don't have any trouble. The ones that mainly have trouble (that started all the folklore about "clipping for their own safety) were probably the wild caught ones. They were accustomed to flying in wide open spaces and if not clipped would attempt to flee humans at every opportunity and end up crashing. This simply does not apply to domestically bred flight raised parrots. I have an article in the works about this very topic so when I wrap some things up, keep an eye for it because it will cover this all in great detail.

[maillet]

If there is no risk of hurting itself indoors than I will definately leave it unclipped. From what I have read however most younger parrots will have their feathers pre-clipped. How long does it take for these feathers to return, and will the feathers be as good as the original ones were?

From what I read the average cut is 5 of the primary feathers on the far edge of the wings. What happens if you only clipped one, or two, or three of the features? Does it entirely prevent a safe flight or would ti make the action more difficult thereby limiting long distance flight potential.

1. How long do feathers take to return once they are clipped? Are they as good as originals?
2. What is the significance of the number of feathers cut? How does it affect ability to fly?

And on another note,
3. How many types of foods should I begin an eclectus on? (One or two from each group, then one new food each week) or (Several foods from each group at the beginning to gauge what it likes)?

For starters I was thinking some 50% Brown Rice and Fresh Corn, 25% Broccoli and Sweet Potatoes, 20% Tomato/Pinapple/Carrots, and 5% Nuts for Treats (Pinenuts and Almonds). I believe this is one of the most balanced I could offer based on what I have read and foods I have available.

Over time I could/would add: Green Peas, Cabbage, Live Sprouts, Blueberries, Grapes, Parsnips, Spinach, Pomagranite, Hazelnuts, Cashews, Hibiscus, Marigolds, and Sunflowers.

I am using this page for what to feed an Eclecus. <http://eclectusparrots.net/foodpyramid.html>

[Michael]

If there is no risk of hurting itself indoors than I will definately leave it unclipped.

I wouldn't say there is no risk. The absolute number one biggest risk is uneducated and/or irresponsible owners. There are tons and tons of things the owner can do wrong that would put a flighted parrot at high risk (the majority of these things apply to clipped parrots as well to an extent). Some things would only apply to flighted parrots (like leaving a ceiling fan on). One problem is that a flighted parrot has more opportunities to get into trouble more quickly. So let's say the owner left out toxic foods, plants, electrical wires, etc and isn't adequately supervising. It's not impossible that a clipped parrot get into these but the flighted parrot may be able to get into more trouble more quickly.

Now with proper precautions, bird proofing, educated owners, and a bird friendly environment, I would say the flight risks are quite small. The biggest one I can think of is getting caught trying to fly through a door someone is closing. You just gotta realize this and be careful. Now in terms of flying into windows, mirrors, and walls the risk is negligible when the bird is raised around this. Yes it will crash into them a few times while it is learning to fly but if done young it does not do damage and they learn this well for life.

From what I have read however most younger parrots will have their feathers pre-clipped.

Well this is because most people still have not figured out how to keep them and are looking for that talking, colorful, hamster thing. Just because people keep doing it doesn't mean it's good for the bird or the relationship. I would not buy from any breeder that is insistent on clipping. On the other hand, I'd be hard pressed if not impossible to find a breeder that never does.

How long does it take for these feathers to return, and will the feathers be as good as the original ones were?

Depends on some factors but usually 9-18 months after weening. It takes a while. Especially for the entire molt to complete and replace all feathers. If the feathers grow in properly they should be as good if not better (babies may have some stress bars and imperfections). However, there is risk that new feathers will not grow in properly after a clip. Kili would grow one feather back in at a time and as it was unprotected, it would get broken. Then the next would have the same problem, etc. Because of this she is still missing some flight feathers several years later. I would not clip a parrot at all for this reason among many others.

From what I read the average cut is 5 of the primary feathers on the far edge of the wings. What happens if you only clipped one, or two, or three of the features? Does it entirely prevent a safe flight or would ti make the action more difficult thereby limiting long distance flight potential.

Clipping fewer feathers would make it harder for the parrot to fly in varying degrees. This may sound like a good idea but it isn't. What are you trying to achieve? The purpose most people clip parrots is to punish them for flying. Whenever the parrot tries to fly, it can't, falls down, gets hurt. This teaches it not to even try to fly. Furthermore the wings atrophy. So people who've had parrots clipped for many years will brag that they don't even clip the wings and the bird never tries to fly. Well this is because it was psychologically and physically broken from being able to so that's how it goes about. I think it is good for a young breeder raised bird to just have full flight and explore. Let it crash a few times and learn to use its wings. These skills will be useful later in life.

Probably the worst clip is the one that is on the boundary of flighted and not. The bird probably gets really confused because it tries to fly and sort of can but can't. It will overwork itself trying to fly to where it wants but may misjudge the distance and end up landing short or crashing. For instance the bird wants to land on a counter but loses too much height and smacks into the cabinets below.

If your household, lifestyle, or preference does not support a flighted parrot filled with energy, enthusiasm, and crazy ideas about what to do for fun, I would strongly urge you not to get a parrot. Not trying to be mean, not saying you wouldn't have good things in mind, just speaking from personal experience with flighted/unflighted parrots and from a bit of understanding of avian physiology and psychology.

[maillet]

Nope I agree entirely. When I first started doing the research I was fairly certain I would want to avoid having the feathers clipped. It simply seems cruel to deprive a living creature of one of the few things that sets it apart in nature, contributes to its personal identity, and is a survival need.

My main concern with the questions was what I should be looking for in a breeder. What to do if all the birds I can choose from are pre-clipped, and what to expect in raising a flitted Eclectus. I am sort of worried about if the bird gets loose and gets lost, but with proper precautions and of course bird proofing I do not believe it is enough of an alarm to deprive a bird of his own wings.

.....

As for questions I think that about wraps everything up. If anyone could offer an opinion on the initial diet I worked out for an "Eclectus" parrot it would be appreciated. After I have all of the information, I will begin volunteering a couple times at my local Rescue, and if what I expected than I will begin to search for an appropriate breeder who can offer one to these specifications.

1. How many types of foods should I begin an eclectus on? (One or two from each group, then one new food each week) or (Several foods from each group at the beginning to gauge what it likes)?

For starters I was thinking some 50% Brown Rice and Fresh Corn, 25% Broccoli and Sweet Potatoes, 20% Tomato/Pinapple/Carrots, and 5% Nuts for Treats (Pinenuts and Almonds). I believe this is one of the most balanced I could offer based on what I have read and foods I have available.

Over time I could/would add: Green Peas, Cabbage, Live Sprouts, Blueberries, Grapes, Parsnips, Spinach, Pomagranite, Hazelnuts, Cashews, Hibiscus, Marigolds, and Sunflowers.

I am using this page for what to feed an Eclecus. <http://eclectusparrots.net/foodpyramid.html>

[Michael]

Nope I agree entirely. When I first started doing the research I was fairly certain I would want to avoid having the feathers clipped. It simply seems cruel to deprive a living creature of one of the few things that sets it apart in nature, contributes to its personal identity, and is a survival need.

My main concern with the questions was what I should be looking for in a breeder. What to do if all the birds I can choose from are pre-clipped, and what to expect in raising a flitted Eclectus. I am sort of worried about if the bird gets loose and gets lost, but with proper precautions and of course bird proofing I do not believe it is enough of an alarm to deprive a bird of his own wings.

I don't know anything about Eclectus so I'll leave that part for others. But let me just point out that it's better to have a breeder that doesn't clip than one that will harness train. Harness training is something you can do yourself later and if the bird is tame not that big of a deal. And I would say that a breeder who doesn't clip or at least is willing not to clip is most likely a good/experienced breeder (unless it's a complete nobody willing to do anything to sell but you gotta be the judge of that). I ended up turning 2 breeders down (or maybe they turned me down cause I refused to buy anything clipped) in the process of finding the right one. A breeder that always relies on clipping is using a crutch and I would doubt their dedication/abilities then. Many stores/breeders will clip parrots right away without even giving them the opportunity to fledge which leads to mental developmental issues. I'd say these are the top 3 things to look for when selecting a breeder:

1) Don't clip (or willing not to clip)
2) Weening diet
3) Breeding stock

Ideally you want a mid-sized breeder. You definitely want to avoid the large mill type places but you don't necessarily want a home hobby breeder. The hobby breeder not only has less experience but also has a limited breeding stock. Because of this, mates most likely do not pick each other and there is no selection for genetics. You get what you get (they have what they have). A good mid-sized breeder has enough pairs of breeding stock that they get better pairing. Also they can develop a sense of which pairs yield what kinds of genetic dispositions. I've noticed all of this going through the breeding process acquiring Truman and aside from some little things, am happy about the breeder I chose.

But flight is no easy matter and nor is keeping a parrot. You must realize that it is difficult to manage, requires a lot of work, requires a lot of supplies. But it's just part of the package. It's how parrots are. Don't take it lightly. There will be times that flight is difficult to manage or problematic. If you don't do a lot of training and work with the parrot, flight can eventually turn against you. Parrots are wild animals. The only reason they are potentially suitable is pets is because they are very capable of learning and can be taught to be good pets (with some really bad sides that you can't do anything about). Otherwise they're just terrible pets.

[RedDragon1288]

Yes, but a breeder who will start getting a baby accustomed to a harness has to handle him more often and in ways that may otherwise not happen, ie. lifting under the wings. There is no reason for a reputable breeder to refuse doing it for you, I'd be leery if the breeder didn't want to. Why exactly wouldn't they want to? Cause they're lazy and it's extra work?

Glass Onion I don't think its fair of a statement to breeders that do not harness trained. Malachite comes from a reputable breeder and I spoke with Paul and Steve about it and they felt it would add more stress to the chicks to wean them and harness train them. Some breeders who have more helping hands could do it, but why should we expect breeders to do this? It is a great learning process for people to teach trust to one another. Ruby is harness trained and right now I'm training Malachite.

Maillet, it is your choice to whether you clip or have your fid fully flighted. Ruby was fully flighted but when we brought Malachite home he began to sky bomb Malachite. Now because of that Malachite hates Ruby and he will attack Ruby at any chance he has. I'm force to keep both clipped or at least semi flighted for Ruby. I have Ruby semi flighted because he is an African Grey and they are heavy bodied. So if they fall and they are fully clipped, they will hurt themselves.

[sheldonsmum]

HI there,
i have a male ekkie and i love him to death.. yea his diet and constant neeed for fresh fruit and veg and the fact that he is MESSY are the cons to owning an ekkie but the pros far outweigh the cons in my opinoin anyway.. i suggest you have a look at this website http://eclectusparrots.net/ it is an aussie based website but it is all about Ekkies and the girls who run the site have a huge knowledge on them! i suggest you have a read and there should be all the info you need on ekkies
as for outside we use a harnes even tho sheldon is clipped.. (he is a terrible flyer and was constantly crashing into walls etc so the vet recommeded we clip him before he breaks his neck! so we did.. he is starting to grow out his feathers now and we are going to see how he goes now that he is older and a little bit calmer before we make the decision to clip him again.) as for talking well sheldon just turned 1 last week and he practices alot and altho i can understand what he is saying by the way he is saying it his words are not 100% clear yet. I have just started clicker training him after finding this website and so far he is stepping up everytime now and he can turn around. i am teaching him to raise his wings at the moment which is taking a whole lot longer than any of the other tricks he has learnt but we are both having fun with it and that is the main thing!

good luck with your new friend.