Nir wrote:I will be talking to ginger in the very near future but from what i know, she deals with the rehomed senegals which does give a more biased opinion doesnt it? or am i wrong there. since the rehomed senegals will have more problems since their owners obviously didnt raise them right.
Yeah, you are wrong. She gets all kinds from the abused to the well handled. Some were given to her cause people were fed up while others cause the person was sick or died. So she truly does get to meet Senegals from all different backgrounds, sexes, and ages. She is more qualified than a breeder to have a realistic impression cause she sees all sorts of Senegals and not just babies. And she definitely gets to see what happens when they aren't brought up right. I know this because I visited her rescue while I was in Phoenix and worked with some of her birds. She's not a training expert, but when it comes to forming a balanced impression based on the greatest number of species specimens, I know no one more qualified than her on the Poicephalus Senegalus species.
Nir wrote:If you could fix what was broken why cant i? i am also very very dedicated and really like of what i saw so far.
No offense, but everyone thinks that up front but it only proves true over the test of time and hardship. Seems to me like at least 1/4 of people who purchase a parrot, get rid of it within 2 years. Possibly more. Literally in the span of the years I've run this forum I have encountered people, like you, who were really enthusiastic, didn't listen to anyone about anything, got a parrot, thought it was fun, ran into problems, didn't listen to anyone and went about it all wrong, and got rid of the bird... all this is chronicled in the archives. My point is that being committed/responsible for the parrot 20 years from now is equally important as being excited right not. For MANY MANY people this dwindles off and they either get another parrot to bring back that spark of excitement or get rid of the one they had that just isn't doing it for them anymore. I know you think you're in this for the long run and are really excited, but I'm strongly urging you to step outside your immediate motivations and really think this through from an outside perspective and the parrot's perspective.
Even if you do raise the bird right and all is well between you, what about if/when you get married, have kids, etc. Loads of people get rid of their birds when their household changes. People don't think ahead very well. There are foreseen things but even lots of unforeseen things. It's important to have these thought through and what you'd do. What would you do if you got in a relationship with a person that was allergic to the bird? Hated the bird? Got attacked by the bird? While a parrot might seem right to you in your current circumstance, is it really right for you in the long term?
It is all too easy to see a cute cuddly baby Senegal, Cockatoo, puppy, you name it and get fooled into ownership. However, long term ownership is NOTHING like that cute cuddly baby image you got into your head. It's false advertising. It's deceptive. The baby just sits in the nest, eats, poops, and that's it. So you come over, grab it, hold it, pet it, cuddle it, no problem. It doesn't resist. It doesn't necessarily want it but nor does it bite or act like it doesn't. It's just a baby and unresponsive. This can be mistake for being sweet and I totally know the feeling cause I love visiting baby Senegal Parrots in stores and playing with them. Every time this happens I'm reminded by how I feel for Kili when I got her. However, long term ownership turned out nothing like that baby Senegal that I got. (Well luckily with a TON of work I've gotten a lot of it back and made it work out but that's a whole other story and really outside the scope of just average ownership).
Senegal Parrots don't have to be hormonal to be vicious. They are that way without being hormonal. When they hit a certain age, they become aggressive toward anything that hasn't proved itself worthy otherwise. If you're lucky, it's everyone but you. If you're unlucky, then it will even turn on you and you'll be attacked as much as anyone. Senegal Parrots aren't just defensive, they are actually aggressive. They are the kind of bird that will make an intentional effort to go attack another bird (or person, to them it's all just competition). I have encountered countless stories of Senegal Parrots attacking (and maiming or killing) other birds. One, actually snuck out of its cage and climbed onto another birds cage and killed it through the bars while the owner was gone. It is in their nature to intentionally and maliciously attack others.
Through training, taming, and socialization a lot of this can be curbed (although when they are hormonal, it will happen anyway). However, when it comes to things outside your direct control (like other people, birds, etc) it is very risky. You may be able to stand up to the biting and teach it not to bite you. Not the case for budgie, roommates, etc. Your roommates could potentially undo any/all effort you put into training the bird NOT to bite other people. This can be a huge problem in the long run if you get a girlfriend, wife, kids, etc.
Although my impression is that Grey Parrots tend to be more defensive and will fear bite, I think they are less prone to intentional aggression like Senegals. I'm not saying this is a reason to get one or even consider it, but I think it helps compare the kind of biting Senegals can get involved with.
If I'm dwelling on the aggression too much, it's because it is the biggest problem with Senegals and not spoken enough about. People don't see it in the baby and are in no way prepared for what's to come. Worse yet, when the sweet baby becomes aggressive, they deal with it the wrong way and really set it up for further failure. The bird becomes aggressive, so people get scared (or think it just doesn't want to come out). So they leave it in the cage which just makes it more territorial and aggressive. And before you know it either they get rid of it, or just leave it condemned to the cage 24/7 for life without parole.
The biggest trouble I had wasn't my Senegal Parrot biting me, but biting others. That's REALLY hard because no matter how much self discipline I had to do things right on my end, I couldn't control how others might be encouraging the bird to bite (whether they knew it or not). Senegals generally aren't rehomed/neglected over screaming or plucking (although it does happen from time to time so don't completely write it off as a possibility) but over the aggression. You said that biting is an issue for you and I'm telling you that with Senegals aggression is one of the cons/side effects. Also they are in the range of mediocre talkers to not talking at all. Worse yet they just pick up annoying noises. So they don't talk but they mimic shrieks, whistles, and annoying wild bird calls. You will find the exceptional talking Senegal, but it's the exception not the rule. Mostly their vocalizations are annoying and not fun so it's not a plus side to look forward to.
For me the best parts are the intelligence, convenient size, playfulness, loyalty, relative quietness, relative cleanliness, relative mellowness (not as hyper as others), quick learner, good at tricks, can fly in confined conditions, somewhat cuddly. Senegals mostly win as a "personality" parrot. They don't have the looks, talks, or skills of other parrots but they win on having a likeable personality. However, that personality can become inaccessible through aggression. So this is why it's such a big deal. Let's say a certain parrot is a non-aggressive screamer. Although it's annoying as hell, it doesn't prevent the owner from being able to hold and interact with the bird. Aggression on the other hand may entirely prevent all interaction and no progress can be made. Thus it is a very significant ownership issue.
I would caution you about the information you get from various sources. While I think it's perfectly fine for everyone to participate in discussions and have an opinion, you'll find that it's not always a valid one. Some suggestions are given by people who don't even own the experience in question, a parrot at all, or that kind but only very briefly, etc. Others are biased by profit. I still think it's better that they all be available and for the reader to hear all and choose. However, in the excitement of getting a new parrot it's easy to accept the ones that are positive/in agreement with what you want and ignore the others. I'm up front that my experience is 4 years with one Senegal Parrot, visiting at least another 6 Senegal Parrots, 2 Meyers, 3 Jardines, 1 Red Bellied Parrot in a store, 3 adult Senegal Parrots in other places, 6 adult Senegal Parrots at a rescue, and all the conversations I have had with other Senegal owners (both success and failure) who gravitate toward discussing it with me based on my successful ownership of one. When I give you my feedback, that is the perspective it is coming from and not just owning a single bird or hearing about it.
Talk to Ginger first, then I can fill you in on more training related details. Please consider a rescue rather than a baby. Other than the first 6-9 months of enjoyable hassle-free baby, you don't necessarily gain any advantage by having a baby over an adult. There are actually many potential benefits to getting an adult rescue parrot instead. One is that you know what you're getting whereas with a baby you won't find out until it grows up.