OUR CAPTIVE BIRDS

[terri]

Starting to see this mentioned alot.I started to think about my caged parrots I must go somewhere else in my brain.I think thats why I feel so strongly helping people who want parrots to do the right things [I think maybe thats one more bird that will have a good life].I wish I had known sooner how big parrots were going to affect my life .I seriously would have done things differently.I would have lived in a warmer state,had more land and maybe a different job.But who knows things can change.When you read about parrots life expectency they forget to tell you that its not true for captive birds .We have captive birds,diet and lifestyle play a big part.So when I hear one of peoples reasons for not wanting certain breeds cause they live to long .I think thats not true .Theres a very small percentage who make it.Ive read more about Amazons than any other species.We have a congo grey he may live to 60 but in reality[we know this from a grey guy] he may see 20 to 30.What should we do ?Get this diet thing figured out and pass it on.

[Grey_Moon]

Its a sad truth that well-intentioned people (and the jerks who cause this whole mess) don't find out until it's too late. Parrots should never be pets.

The first thing people say to me when they meet my girl is omg she must live a crazy long time. The reality is captive greys die of heart disease before they see 30.
But in a sad way, I think an early death is the best release for these poor creatures...I would never want Jacko to sicken, suffer or die---but if she dies in the next few years in a way death gives her what I couldn't.

Freedom. Which should be her birthright. She should have a mate always by her side, a vast world of trees and storms and cool breezes and all sorts of fruits n other food.
She's an intelligent, sentient creature, just like me---yet she has no freedom and no power. I know what feeling like that does to me, it distresses me to think she feels that way. It breaks my heart and hurts me to a level I cannot stand when I see her calling for me as I leave for school--knowing that she'll be sitting in her cage for 8-10 hours until I get back. She should be out flying.

But she's trapped, as I am because if I don't go to class, if I don't work...she and I starve.

One of the most powerful experiences was once Jacko and I walked for a few miles and got caught in a rainstorm. People might critique me and say, omg how could you let that happen she should be at home safe in her cage!

She was so alive and free in that moment that I cherish it. Sure it was a bit windy, and crazy and the rain was falling on us and we had to take shelter under trees---but she was experiencing life for the first time. She was alive and totally in the moment, experiencing everything a wild parrot would.
We walked for a long time and she saw trees and people and dogs and cars and the river and heard the thunder and the wind.

She didn't pluck for the rest of the day. She wagged her tail and was grinding her beak while she was out in the rain and the waves on the water and seeing all the leaves rattle and feeling the rain on her feathers.
Sometimes she got spooked because it flooded in all at once---but even this 'stress' was stimulating to her---her eyes were pinpointing like crazy.

I wish every day she could do that with me. I'm half debating one day soon to take her down to a person who specializes in free-flight to see if she could ever free-fly with me.
Ideally, I'd love for her to live, in a fantasy world, a bit like an indoor-outdoor cat.
I'd love for her to just be free to come and go as she wished and roost next to my pillow at night.

Even if it meant she only got to 30 years old---at least it would be 30 years of freedom instead of 30 years of being crammed in a cage, playing with toys as a subsitute for flockmates n foraging n traveling, and being fed an 'expert-recommended' diet and dying of heart disease anyway.

She should be free.
I wish I could let her be.

I think people need to get away from pellets, feed only fresh food and get their birds outdoor enclosures and a flockmate (or more). If thats not possible at least a harness-trained bird, an actual sun/tanning lamp inside over their cage (not this UV pet bulb garbage) and a room of their own converted into a cage. With an outdoor aviary when possible. And a flockmate if possible.

That, and stop the breeding of parrots as pets.
We have no right to continue the cycle of abuse, but we have to care for those who cannot be set free.

[Eurycerus]

I am trying really hard to earn Nika's trust and desensitize her to being touched all over so that I can pop a harness on her. I actually think we are doing pretty well. She gently let's me know when she's not pleased with what I'm doing, but hasn't really bitten me *knocks on wood* for over two months. She is really a wonderful critter and I want her to have a happy life! I want her to go to the store or for walks with me but no way will I do that without a harness. She would become cat/bird of prey food in a millisecond.

When I got a home visit the man remarked at how huge my cage was for such a small parrot. He fosters african greys and his cage is smaller than mine! I wish I could let her out while I was gone but my house would be very dangerous for her, in addition to the humongous amount of damage she'd do to my cables. I knew that I had to get the largest cage I could afford for the little beast that I was bringing into my life. Of course I see the reasoning to wishing your parrot could be free, but they aren't. Number one, everyone on here wanted/likes parrots because they are available as "pets". Yes if noone had them as pets that would be great, but we do and we enjoy them. To me this desire to do right touches on a lot of things. The optimal thing would be to have no pets, to be vegan, to have less children to stop overpopulation, to waste less, to never use toxic chemicals, to not drive, to not do things just for the sake of money, etc. but we live in a world where it is acceptable and even encouraged to do all of those things and more. So really we'd have to start even higher up the chain and look at our culture, how it shapes us and our wants and desires before we could stop the breeding and stop having animals as pets, particularly parrots, but other animals too.

By the way that is very surprising about the african greys life expentancy. I really always thought that they lived for a long time, like cockatoos, macaws, amazons etc. Rather sad that we haven't figured out how to feed them properly, considering we've had them as "pets" for quite a while.

[Grey_Moon]

I think a lot of us want pet parrots because we don't quite grasp what it means for them to be our pets and how stressful (even with loving guardians and good care) that that can be. Soon enough we get wise to it.

Personally, It's not ok with me to throw my hands up and say 'well because I can't do everything, I'm going to do nothing'. I would never go vegan for example.

I know then that one could ask me why bother getting upset at keeping parrots as pets. I would argue because there's a huge difference between killing another life for sustenance and then keeping a life for your entertainment. Especially a life that is clearly not adapted to living as a 'pet'. Most of our now domesticated animals actually do fairly well living with us so it doesn't bother me as much.

I lived in a community where the dogs were allowed to free-roam and form packs and socialize with other dogs. They were affectionately known as 'town dogs' and were collectively cared for by the community--if it was cold someone brought them into the garage for the night to keep warm. The dogs came and went to their families as they pleased.

The most well-adjusted cats I've ever seen belong to a friend who has a small farm. They sleep in the loft in the barn, spend their days catching and killing rodents and other prey---and can climb trees at will. They're still very affectionate cats.

Sure---one day they could get killed by a coyote, or a dog, or the dogs could get hit by a car or something. But to me that's a worthy tradeoff. They're alive, living fully enriched lives.
If someone was raising their children like we do our modern pets people would say they were sheltered and smothered. You can't bubblewrap someone and never let them live. Like...to be 100% safe 100% of the time... it messes with the quality of life, because very few things are 100% without risk.

I feel the same way about Jacko. I'm not about to let my selfish and greedy attachment to her and not wanting to feel loss and pain prevent her from living if I can help it.

Don't want to start a fight just my two cents.

[Eurycerus]

I'm not a fighter I just like to express my opinions :] so no worries. I'm just saying that for me, I enjoy parrots, they are available, I figure I can help give one of them a great life, maybe even more later, not sure. I won't promote breeding by buying from a breeder, therefore reducing demand, and maybe in turn supply.

I see what you're saying, and I personally spread awareness about not buying from breeders and about supporting local rescues. In addition, I have informed a huge number of people that I know about better ways that parrots should be kept. Awareness, awareness! It is shocking how little people know about seemingly common place pets. Even bunnies! I am horrified by how some people keep their bunnies. I believe that most pet parrots enjoy humans and probably most of the ones on this forum, live a darn good life. I personally like to think that Nika is enjoying herself. I think she would love it if there was another parrot around to call to when I'm not around and that she could be out exploring all day. I hope that I can have a room for her at some point, we'll see.

Now I'm not super educated about larger parrots, but I've done a fair bit of research. I'm not saying that a Senegal (or the like) isn't intelligent as all get out, but I think they have less social demands than some of the larger parrots. Reading about cockatoos self destructing disgusts me. To me that is a species that is better off not in people's homes unless they are with you all the time and you are prepared to have an animal that honestly has more demands than a child in some ways. There are people on here with cockatoos that are doing a great job! They sound like amazing companions. So I'm not accusing anyone of anything terrible, :] so no need stick up for yourself and probably some cockatoos hold up a lot better than the ones I've read about. However, a species that is capable of essentially committing suicide (blood loss due to picking) is an animal that shouldn't be kept as a companion in my eyes. Also this is surely true for other species, including outside of the parrot species, but these're just the ones I've read about.

I have been in places with town dogs and they look so happy. They are always friendly dogs (Because it's the country and they'd get shot if they weren't, at least where I was) and they loved the space. It hurt me when we adopted, what I believe, is a country wolf-dog. He had a great rest of his life with us, but I know that he wanted to roam and say hi to the neighbors. He was social and had anxiety about being left alone, that we dealt with. Anyway all I'm saying is we have to do the best with the intelligent animals that we let into our life. I agree that optimally we shouldn't have them as pets, but since we do it is now our responsibility to the darn best for them possible.

[Grey_Moon]

Exactly.

[Eurycerus]

In addition I was saying that to me the issue is our culture of greed and wastefulness. We want and then when we get it and it's not quite what we wanted, or is too difficult, or doesn't fit with our life anymore, or is broken (can be applied to parrots too), we return it, throw it out, get a new one, etc. I think that's the root of every single problem, including keeping parrots as pets.

I kind of figured we were on the same page :]

[liz]

My little birds are confined for their own safety. They had much more out time before Rachel and her cats moved in. My cats respected them and they could cohabitate. I give them as much as possible for habitate. I have two parrot cages (that is how they were advertized but I would never close an Amazon in one) that I have connected with a walkway. One side is food and foraging. The other side is toys and swings with some fresh wood sticking through the bars to chew on. They seem happy in there though they do get excited and see how much they can get into while they are out.

When it comes to Rambo and Myrtle - I am the captive. Their cage is the whole house. Rambo does not want to go outside. One day I forgot Myrtle was on my shouder and walked into the back yard. Her grip tightened is how I remembered she was there. When I got back to the door she flew in before I got in there. These two are happier and healthier than any bird in the wild. Myrtle just did lapps through the house doing parrot calls. When she landed in the living room she was making every noise she ever learn and looked like she was having some kind of fit. Some day she is going to ring her own neck. My Amazons are happy and not missing anything.

Some day I will make a big enclosure with a top so we can be in it together. Myrtle will fly but I want Rambo to climb a small tree or hide in a bush or just pull flowers off a hybiscus. That would make me happy. Until then I am quite confident that they are happy.

[terri]

Ok Eurycerus have to comment on the toos thing.I think it was Greymoon that liked the MY TOOS site .In a way Im glad that its out there so maybe people know how serious bird care is.But what I dont like is how its turned people off about the species, like you.I think ideally live in the right kind of place for them .But do you think there harder than senegals [or any other bird ] not really.Theres lots of others that tend to pluck to.Its understanding the species.Your senegal is giving you an all around good preview of birds I wanted an Eclectus and the internet talked me right out of them.Now I think thats silly, now I wouldnt have a problem with a male or female one.As for toos Im a sucker for their big eyes and cheecks .They have goofy personalitys and can be very sweet.Hopefully at your volunteer place they will have toos and Macaws so make yourself get to know them and think outside the box.Then get back to me

[pennyandrocky]

i agree terri, i wanted a too for a long time but heard horrible things about them. now that i have one i couldn't be happier with her.i'm a sucker for their eyes and cheeks too the way her cheeks fatten when she's eating and that stare gets me everytime especially when she gets that "who me?" look when she's being naughty.i slap a table to get her attention sometimes so now she stomps her foot when she's in trouble.i do feel guilty sometimes when i take them out and they see the wild birds flying around though but i do try to make them as happy as possible they are free to fly around at least 10 hours a day, they always get new toys when i go to the store,and i have branches screwed into my walls.