I decided!!! No more waiting! I am getting a Handfed sennie!

[Nir]

YES!! I seriously think that i can make it work. I am a firm believer that when you want something enough, you will find a way to make it work. My life is as stable as it can possibly be. I have a good job, my college is over, and i work from home. I have been told that my place is too small to have both a budgie and a senegal. I do agree that it might be but i will make sure to have separate cage times and closely supervise both birds at all times when either is out so they don't make the mistake of flying to the others cage.

My house description: It is a duplex so the first floor ceiling is 2 floors high. First floor there is a bedroom (unusable since its my roommates), living room , kitchen, spiral stair case which goes up to the 2nd floor where there is a hall that connects to 2 more bedrooms (i have the master bedroom which is roughly 22x13. I have very high ceilings which might be good for my sennie to fly eventually when he is able to (only after i teach him how to recall). You can look down from my 2nd floor to the first floor as well so i can do some funky recall practices from first floor (anywhere to the 2nd floor hallway or even my room. Like i said i think for a rescue bird it might be a bit small since he is used to flying all the time but for a hand fed baby, i think i can slowly get him used to the apt and everything. The kitchen, hallway, living room and obviously my room should be fair game for him to roam ONLY with supervision since i wouldn't trust my bird with anyone alone.

The way i plan to set up my room is that i will keep the 2 cages in opposite ends, also i will have my tree on 1 side of my computer and another play stand in the right side. So perhaps i can try to see if they can coexist next to me without fighting. I will keep them in their own play stands and will make sure they dont attack each other. my hand will be strategically place in the middle so they cant fly at each other. Also my budgie RARELY wants to come out. Only like 2x a day he will want to come out for awhile and chill out. He is more independent but will come out for some play time but only for maybe 30 min to an hour a day. So the sennie will probably have more out of cage time and especially at different times so only sometimes they both might be out at once but again this is only see as it goes since if i see any aggression or signs of them not working out together, then i wont let them out again.

Ok now to why i am doing this now. Honestly i have been trying to find the "right time" to do this for awhile. i wanted to get it pre college but i thought thats not a good idea since college might complicate things. Then i wanted to do it post college but i was at a high at that point with my new career that i was trying to make it at and decided that was a wrong time since i was focusing on other things. Then basically right now is where i am at where i think i am ready. but in all honesty, when can you be ready? When your pre 18, you will be told that college will be an issue (this is the only one i firmly agree with since life changes alot during college). Then you graduate and are told that your career will be an issue. Then you find a career but are told that your marriage/ next phase of your life will be an issue so should wait longer. Then you get married and are probably told that thats not a good time since your starting your new family and have to support everyone and have kids. Then your around 40 years old and even then might not be a good time since by that age your working hard and might not have the time to give 1on1 time much to your bird and your responsibilities as a father/mother might be important. Then you turn 50+ and might think thats the right time but then you might not have the energy to take care of a bird and do everything right....


So when is the right time? Even if i get a bigger place then the one i am living in, i am sure there will be other issues that will prevent me from deciding on my 2nd bird. And it is just going to be my 2nd and most likely final bird. How many others on this site or in real life has a worse situation in their life with more birds who are making it work? I honestly think i can make it work and will make it work.

So therefore i honestly am done waiting. I know enough about training/ clicker training/ behavior training through reading/ working with my budgie/ talking to amazing people (such as ginger and michael) who have helped me understand things better. I was trying to get a rescue but that did not work out since the bird is used to having a much bigger place to fly in and honestly, i wouldnt want him to be unhappy. And there arent really any other rescues who i would trust then the one i was talking to (someone from the forum who was the most helpful awesome person ever!) Also the closest rescue to begin with is many hours away so its not even going to be possible to just go by to look. But right now i think getting a baby will be better so i can just start shaping him to get used to life with me and my budgie.

Also on the bird to get, truth is i will stick with a senegal just because i think they fit me the best and i feel like i know them the best. But however who knows.. maybe when i am going to choose my sennie, i might fall in love with a different bird there.

So ya. question i have from you guys is that do you think this can work or not. I have heard of every negative i can possibly hear and i have taken everything in and i fully understand every risk that i might go looking at. So tell me if you think this will work out or if there is anything i am not looking at.

Also keep in mind that eventually i do plan to move to my own place just that at the time being i dont know when it will be. The house i was buying to move in to is no good anymore since i decided to turn it into a investment house instead and flip it in a year or so instead.

As for me, i am a 28 year old guy living with 2 roommates (1 loves my birds and plays with him the other had been around birds at his home all his life but not really a bird person however he is ok with it). I think my maturity is at a higher level then it was when i was in college. Also my job acquires me to be very very patient so patience is definitely one of my strongest points (i trade options/equities).

[pennyandrocky]

i really don't want to sound negative just please research the problems with handfed vs. parent raised babies. there is a thread on the subject here.

[Grey_Moon]

Please don't buy a baby bird---sennies are commonly rehomed so check your local classifieds.
You don't have to rescue a rescue bird strictly at a rescue.

[Eurycerus]

i really don't want to sound negative just please research the problems with handfed vs. parent raised babies. there is a thread on the subject here.

+1 If you're going to support a breeder, support an ethical one. :] I also think you haven't been trying if you've only come across one senegal that needs a new home.

I'm a little confused as to how your place is too small. I live in a large room but small apartment. Not only has it been fine for Nika and I but I got approved to foster or adopt through the rather rigorous process required for the local parrot rescue. Pretty sure that shouldn't be an issue. Light, noise, and air quality is much more important as long as you don't live in a refrigerator box.

I agree with your comment about readiness. I think some people on her get overzealous regarding their ideas on readiness. It's mental. You make a choice and live with it. Life is crazy from the day you're born till the day you die.

It sounds like you're trying to prove to us why you're ready. If you're ready, then you know it. You don't need anyone to tell you yes or no. This is a place for advice and ideas.

[Michael]

Clearly you missed EVERYTHING that was explained to you about why not to get one. Ginger turned you down for a rescue parrot not because he is used to having more space but because you just don't have enough room for any flighted Senegal Parrot to properly fly. Your room isn't big enough to keep a flighted parrot bigger than a budgie (maybe cockatiel, we kind of lump them together but besides the point). The conditions outside your room seem to be unsafe for a parrot to be out (no safety door from front door, not single owner house). So other rooms not considered, the important thing is that your room be big enough.

Ginger and I spent a lot of time discussing the minimum sized room necessary for a flighted Senegal Parrot. It wasn't ideal size, suggested size, or what we'd like size, it was about the absolute minimum. And yours doesn't meet it. It is still sort of a case by case basis thing but the estimate was that 15ftx18ft is the minimum dimension with minimal obstruction, high ceilings, parrot suited perching areas, and encouraged flight (training). The more space beyond this and the less picky about details. The contemplation for minimum size is the amount of space a Senegal can fly circular laps in without landing. They require some turn radius and margin from crashing into walls.

Without an actual hard number from you, we estimated based on known furniture dimensions in pictures/video that your room is 13x17ft with not even 8ft ceilings. Ceiling height isn't critical but you have no benefit of tall ceilings (10-13ft). The bit of space to the side of the closet is useless space because there is no room to place anything there or for the bird to fly there which is why it isn't counted. Ginger and I literally spent hours going through the room video frame by frame and discussing it on the phone to come to this conclusion. Not only there isn't enough room for the bird to fly but you literally don't have the room for a proper sized cage. The place we understood you wanted to place it (next to the dresser opposite the budgie cage) the cage would stick out and block your walkway. There is literally like 2ft from dresser to bed as it is. Dressers are typically 16-18inches and that one appears thereabouts. The recommended cage is 24x22x68. That's 22" deep without even the seed guard which will add at least another 3" on both sides so 28". Dresser (16") + 24" walkway = 40" from wall to bed. How do you expect to squeeze yourself through the 12" gap between the cage and corner of the bed every day? Not only is this inconvenient but also a fire hazard. Even if you went to an absolute bare minimum cage that I wouldn't recommend (18x18x32), you're still talking 26" deep and 14" walkway. We saw no other place to be able to fit a cage like that either. Even the recommended cage without a seed guard is 22" deep and would leave no more than 18" of walkway to the bed. I really don't think you understand how big these cages really are.

We're not trying to make this hard for you, we are honestly telling you that not only is there not enough room for a Senegal to fly, not only is it a terrible risk for your budgie (which I didn't even get into here), but you don't have the space for the cage and it will be a major inconvenience to you.

So if you want to live up to your phrase, "YES!! I seriously think that i can make it work. I am a firm believer that when you want something enough, you will find a way to make it work." Then you need to find a bigger place to live. Even if it means renting a separate apartment on your own that has a 15x20ft room for you. That's the way. You're not going to make it work safely, conveniently, and in a good way for a Senegal Parrot in that room. But until you do, forget about adding a bird or shopping for supplies. All of this has been told to you with the greatest compassion and interests in mind. It just won't work with what you have now.

[Nir]

Michael i fully understand the decision for sammy and i agree with it. thus why i think if i got a baby sennie that i can get him adjusted to the size. And by the time he is flighted i would either be able to have a new place by then or recall train him so he can fly around in my kitchen area. You said high ceiling was important with lots of landing areas. Well i think the hallway near the kitchen would be very good for that since its 2 floors high with a decent round space to fly in. The baby can get accustomed to the size. as for where to put my cage that it will block the path really is no issue. I can always move furniture around to make it work better. Maybe i can put the table where my budgie is to where i want to keep my sennie and then put the cage on the other side next to my bed.. just an example.

If possible, maybe you should stop by the apartment to check out the place to get a better view of things. I am free tomorrow if you can stop by . Then if you still think a flighted sennie wont work then i might have him clipped until i move to a bigger house which honestly is going to be very hard since nyc is a tough place to afford a house big enough to have a flighted sennie.

Also i am confused about what you mean by safety door. I have doors in all the rooms if thats what you mean. Also if you dont count the couple "dead" feet by the closet, the room still will be roughly 20x13 which i know is a bit small. But then perhaps maybe a flighted sennie might not work and i might have to have him clipped if thats better. Also the ceiling in my room is at LEAST 9 feet. I am 6 feet so roughly its another 3 feet taller. And the ceiling for the first floor to 2nd floor is at the very least 20 feet but again that space might not be usable since its not enough space to have a sennie circle laps around. When you said flighted i just meant enough flying area for him to fly to areas comfortably. I didnt think it means flying circles since i dont know what house in nyc will be big enough to fly circles in. Your place is very long so kili has good flying range and i think my place can also have a similar flying range from my first floor to the 2nd floor in a straight line. But neither mine or yours (from the videos you posted) would make me think that its big enough for a bird to fly circles. Also my inconvenience is hardly a factor.

[Michael]

You're still not following. The conclusion that Ginger and I came to is that the room is not big enough for a Senegal period. This decision was not specific to Sammy. If it was another 5ft wider, we would have had to analyze it for the specific bird rather than the species. But from both of our experiences and knowing how much space our birds take to fly, we concluded that it is definitely too little space. We know from taking these birds into various different rooms when there was enough space for them to fly and when there wasn't.

This has nothing to do with whether the bird is raised in these conditions or not. We're not talking about desirable sizes, we are talking about bare minimums. We are talking about the amount of space the bird needs to be able to turn in flight and not smack into a wall. While my apartment size is very advantageous to Kili, I am well aware that it's not the minimum. I've used my experience of taking her to other people's houses and visualizing by counting ceiling tiles at my place what the smallest room she could still barely adequately fly in. That is how I came with 15x18ft. Ginger came up with almost the same number based on the dimensions of her office room where the birds can barely fly. You can see me flying my parrots in this room for the majority of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVlJkvtYHCs

I know for a fact that Kili can't fly properly in the aviary, a 10x10ft room, etc. She needs about 15ft minimum for a flight recall that involves any flapping forward flight at all (not takeoff/landing) plus space to turn. Based on the dimensions of your room, I don't think a Senegal Parrot could fly properly and possibly end up knocking into walls because not enough room to turn. I have not even started to get into the budgie or full time in same room with you issues which are just as serious and problematic. If you had 2x rooms or one bigger room, I think you can at least have the bare minimum to make it work. But in this case, definitely not.

From my understanding of the stairway hallway (and I could be wrong here but how it was described to me), there is only one door between that area and the outside. This is too hazardous to be flying a parrot in. My point of a safety door was that there would have to be an "entry room" with a door before leading to the outside door for this to be safe. Way way too many people lose parrots flying out the front door because its their only one. This is definitely out of the question.

Forget about clipping. Your worst fears about aggression and not being friendly will most definitely come true. Seriously, if you are desperate to make this work, rent a bigger apartment and go for it. Perhaps for $300 a month more you can have a bigger apartment all to yourself. Consider it part of the cost of bird ownership, having the space to adequately share with it. Until then, I think it would be utterly irresponsible to recommend or to go forward with adding a Senegal in those confines.

[Nir]

there is 2 doors to enter my house. 1 through first floor and 1 through 2nd floor.

Also i am sure your aware of the prices for apartments in nyc and what size you can get. I looked for a long time to find my place which is big compared to the apartments here. the price i pay for it is near 3k a month so adding a few more hundred wont make anything change. Perhaps what might work is just a big giant living room but even then its rare to come by.

again, is there anyway you can stop by the apartment? its a short 20 min drive without traffic. (When i met up with you, it took me 40 mins only because it was rush hour). If you come by on a weekend or at night then it will roughly take you 20 mins.

[Michael]

3000 is for the entire house so split 3 ways, you're paying $1000 I'm guessing. Instead of an entire house, rent a slightly larger apartment for $1200-1400 is what I'm saying. That's not thousands more.

[Nir]

3000 is for the entire house so split 3 ways, you're paying $1000 I'm guessing. Instead of an entire house, rent a slightly larger apartment for $1200-1400 is what I'm saying. That's not thousands more.

you think a 1500 house in nyc will be bigger then the house i have? have you gone mad. If i was going to find a house bigger, it would cost me much more then 2500. UNLESS of course i am paying for like a 1 bedroom which will never be the case if i move in myself. Yes its divided 3 ways but the house is still a 3k house so its bigger then the houses i will be able to afford alone. A lot bigger. if you can find me a 2 bedroom 1500 dollar(or even a bit more) apt in nyc that's big enough for a flighted sennie and is near the city, then i would move in tomorrow. (as long as the area is not crime infested slum hole).