A few ??s for Grey owners.... and a possible new addition

[stlbirdgirl]

Hi guys, I'm new here and just posted an intro in the other section. You can read the whole thing there but if not here's the quick version. I have a female senegal named Mango and an unsexed gold capped conure named Sage as well as a two year old son.

So onto the grey.... My SO's friend that he grew up with just moved into his parents old house when they moved and it happens to be right by us so we went over there on Tuesday night for a while. Neither one of use had any idea that he had birds so I was surprised when I heard chirping coming from the basement. Turns out Brian's parents left their birds (a cockatiel and a CAG) there when they moved which of course makes my blood boil to start out with. Brian has no problem handling the tiel so she can get out and play but he warned me that the grey was mean and would not come out to me. Well my time volunteering at a bird rescue with abused birds made me kind of cocky I guess because I kind of took that as a challenge. After about fifteen minutes of her getting used to me she came out of her cage just fine and within another ten minutes or so she was cuddled up under my chin cooing away happily.

I don't have a lot of experience with greys but I do have a lot of experience with cockatoos and macaws that were cage bound for many years. I know that I've read a lot about how CAG's have a tendency to get more phobic than a lot of other species. I truly expected her to be hard to get out of her cage but it didn't really take anywhere near as much effort as I thought it would. Anyway, Brian asked me if I would take her home with me because he doesn't feel as though he can properly care for her. I am really interested in adding her to my family but I'm trying to learn as much as I can about CAG's before I make that decision. I am a little worried that she will not deal well with a toddler in the house. Liam is great with the birds but of course my current birds are little ones. Also her cage is way too small so I would definitely have to get her a new cage and change her diet (she is currently on like a cheap walmart blend). I don't have a problem with either of those things and I know that the best way to switch them is slowly I'm just wondering if there is anything else I should know when it comes to doing these things with a CAG?

I'm sure that her and Liam can adjust to each other and I know that it will take a lot of patience. I guess I'm just basically wondering if any of you grey owners out there have any advice for me if I decide to take her in?

Thanks!!

[Michael]

Just don't rush anything to prevent plucking or issues from arising. Be sure to keep things positive and make the bird want to do things rather than forcing it to do anything. It may not be a good idea to change the diet, cage, location, etc all in one shot. You should try to keep this a bit more gradual. With other species or other circumstances, it wouldn't be as big a deal.

However, what might be the best possible thing you can do (unless the person genuinely wants to get rid of the bird), is to try to teach the owner to treat the bird better and develop a relationship. That is by far the best thing you could do and then adopt a different unwanted rescue grey, thus solving 2 problems and not 1

[stlbirdgirl]

Thanks Michael. I do know not to rush things. I would probably buy a new cage and put it by her old one so that she could decide when to move over and I've had success before helping another bird change it's diet by gradually introducing pellets and fresh foods into the bowl with the food the bird was used to. I know this was a macaw not a grey so I'm thinking it may take longer with a CAG.

I would love to teach Brian how to take better care of her but he is a cop and commonly works nights and doesn't feel he has the time to properly socialize her because she has basically been cage bound for the last twelve years (and in a tiny cage at that). I have offered to come over and try to help him learn how to handle her so we will see how that goes. It's not even that I have my heart set on adding a bird to the flock right now or anything it's just that I guess I really bonded with this girl and I really want to help her. I was thinking of even buying a new cage for her and bringing it to his house so that even if she doesn't end up staying there she will hopefully get settled into a bigger cage before I bring her home. I definitely want to get to know her more before I make any decision. I just want to do what's best for her and I guess I'm not exactly sure of what the best way to go about it is.

[Michael]

That's great and very generous of you. Yeah, I think that getting the owner to do right by the bird is by far the best thing. Taking it should only be a last resort no matter how much you like the bird. Keep in mind not to be too good to the bird that makes a jerk out of the owner by comparison (particularly if it is going to stay). This ends up creating difficulty and could even make the bird aggressive to the previous person. Like I said, the best thing is to help the existing owner be able to do what you do that is successful. You be the brain and let them be the hands. That way they learn and the bird develops a relationship with them.

What size cage is it now?

[stlbirdgirl]

I can't really tell you what the actual size of the cage is because I didn't measure it or anything but it is basically a cockatiel cage. My senegal and conure have a much larger cage. I know you can get too big to where a bird doesn't feel secure but it's small enough that she literally has like no tail and I know it's not from plucking or anything. You could tell by the way it looked that it was from rubbing on the cage too much.

[Grey_Moon]

I'm going to take a different approach given what worked with my girl, who came into my life about 8 years ago.

Jacko, like this CAG was a bird who spent a lot of time either being mishandled/not handled and who basically was left in a basement and not enriched, ever....a square of brightly coloured paper would cause her to freeze. We had, and tried, to replace the chewed up, stained, and dust-encrusted dowels she came with....she went to the top of the cage and growled for two days, no amount of food/water coaxed her to sit on them and she'd cautiously and angrily crawled around them to get water/food only when she absolutely had to. Needless to say, we put the dowels back and replaced them one at a time to give her a safe place where she could sit/eat/drink.

After this, I took in stock the fact that she was a) a grey and b) a rescue. I bought into the mythos that greys and rescues needed to be treated with kid gloves. I never did anything that could be 'scary', I never disturbed the 'safe zone'. I fussed and stressed over her, trying to protect her and her emotions. She was already a plucker for goodness sakes so I had to build as much stability as I could of course....

Yeah, right. She GOT WORSE.
So, I took the kid gloves off.

I *HATE* with a raging passion the stereotypes we confine greys too. I HATE it. We do it with all parrots, but greys in particular.
I don't know where this consensus that greys are phobic, neurotic creatures who explode if a new dandelion pops up outside the window got started but its a terrible detriment AND I'd like to point out, completely different than the accounts of wild caught greys.
So this 'grey phoenomenon' got started with our captive breeding and raised greys. We've created and continue to nurture this monster. We strive so hard to create a safe world that we keep them in day in day out and it hurts them. They've got no idea of how to deal with things, how to explore or how to adapt. We do it because we think routine makes them less anxious.

It's a lot like someone who is housebound. Their world becomes the four walls of their home and while in their box yes they're less anxious, but its only because they could go about their day blindfolded they've done it so long. Nothing changes and they begin to shut down, get lonely and depressed. Gods forbid you put them into a everyday scenario outside their routine---they panic and shut down, they get completely overwhelmed because they're not in their safe place.

We're creating shut-ins out of our greys.

I prefer to see greys are highly intelligent and sensitive young kids. Don't shelter them, don't baby them and DO NOT panic. They're watching you (this where the greys distinguish themselves more so than other parrots---they're more empathetic, socially-oriented and intelligent) and taking their cues from people. If you're strung-out, worried and upset (even about them/for them) then something has to be wrong and they get scared or anxious.
Instead, model calm behaviour, know when to mediate and when to step back. They've got to learn to figure out how to deal with stuff on their own, and its your job to model appropriate responses while not hovering or smothering them.
You don't want to rush them but you don't want to baby them either, to a certain extent you've got to teach them that this is how life goes and they've to adapt and keep up. Its riding that fine line between flooding them and pushing them to open their horizons.

For example, the parents of the toddler who panic, run over and fuss every time the kid falls over will have a kid who upon scraping their knee or taking a tumble will panic and cry and scream their heads off. The toddler whose parents keep an eye on them, sit back and say 'you're ok, get up' will have a different reaction.
You and your grey want to be the second example. You want to be a good example of calm, curiosity, strength and adaptability. You want to be a secure base without smothering them.

Eight years on and Jacko's a different bird. She likes riding in the car, she fears almost nothing, eats everything and takes all of 5 minutes to adjust to a new house. I take her literally everywhere and surprise we got caught in a rainstorm on a hike and I thought she would freak---and yet her eyes were pinning like mad and her tail wagging. She still plucks, but much less (her plucking is mostly physical---resulting from heart issues).

All in all, if you're going to take the grey in---treat him like an adoptive young child. Be sensitive to his needs, but don't treat him differently, expose him to regular life and push him without overwhelming him. Let him deal with his own issues.
Personally, I'd get him home, put him somewhere bright and non-isolated, and get him out of that cage, give him a few small coloured toys and get him used to a routine. He'd be coming in the shower with me and sleeping close to me, just to get him on the road to healing.

Good luck.

[Wayne361]

Previous post was a great answer. I have a that was rehomed. While he was not abused, he wasnt stimulated beyond head scratches and out of cage time. He was frightened of EVERY new object/situation. I began to introduce new things to him gradually (target training helped immensely in introducing new objects). This took a long time and much patience, but eventually he started to become less afraid of new objects/situations as they arose. Now he is at the point where he is CURIOUS of new things. Yes he is still cautious, which is normal survival instinct behaviour, but soon becomes acclimated MUCH more freely and quickly than ever before. In essence by opening up the world, so to speak, you are creating a much more socialized/confident bird, who is less timid of new experiences...

Wayne

[stlbirdgirl]

Thank you for that response. It is a really refreshing look on greys. I can totally appreciate your comparing them to toddlers since I have a two year old of my own. We always do our best to watch him but not hover over everything he does and let him make his own mistakes ( as long as it's not something that will hurt him of course) and I truly see a difference in how he deals with things compared to how a few of my friends young kids do.

The bottom line here I guess is I have to decide whether to bring her home or not. I do appreciate the thought that she would be better off if her current owner could learn how to care for her but the fact in this case is that her actual owners already abandoned her. Their son moved into their house only this week and had never really been around her before then so I guess I am kind of torn on this one because she really doesn't know Brian anymore than she knows me. While I would love to help keep her in familiar surroundings I am not sure that Brian has the tools to properly socialize her and help get her out of her shell. I know that she has the potential to be a truly amazing bird despite her twelve years of being almost completely cage bound. She is honestly no where near as shy or scared as I would expect any parrot that has been cage bound for this long to be. I never would have expected her to come out and cuddle with me and coo all in the first night that I met her, especially after being told she is mean and especially doesn't like women.

Maybe in some ways I am scared that since Brian doesn't know much about parrots in general I am afraid that he could end up accidentally doing more harm than good. I know that makes me sound bad in some ways. I honestly have no problem admitting that I by no means know everything there is to know about working with neglected parrots but I do have over five years experience working at a rescue with birds that were mostly neglected and I guess I feel like that gives me at least some advantage over someone that has no experience with parrots. I would love to teach him everything I know but it took me this long to even feel comfortable enough that I am confident that I could help a bird like her that has been cage bound for this long. Mango, my Senegal who came from the rescue was slightly neglected but no where near the extent this CAG has been. At the rescue I've helped with many birds like her and although I wasn't the sole caretaker of these birds I did work one on one with many of them over long periods of time and I feel this gives me a good background to be able to help her.

Sorry, I guess I'm kind of rambling now. I think I need to sit down with Brian. Since he actually asked me to take her and said he didn't have the time to "deal" with it I think I might be bringing her home soon but I want to make sure that this is the best decision for everyone involved before I do so. I'd like to make sure that he truly isn't willing to work with her before I take her out of there. I'd also like to see if he would let me bring Liam over a few times so I could see how she reacts to him just being around her cage and maybe at least having a young kid running around will not be that big of a shock to her.

Please let me know if you guys think I am in anyway wrong in my thinking on this one.

Oh and thanks for reading all that.... Sorry I tend to ramble,

[stlbirdgirl]

Ok. So now I have this guy literally begging me to take her. He apparently has a bigger cage for her already too. He really can't take care of her bc of his work schedule and after me being there only once she wants out of her cage all the time but he doesn't have the time. I have extra perches and toys and things I could bring him to get her acclimated to them first or I could just bring her home and get her used to the new things there.... What would you guys do?

[Michael]

I guess go for it. Make sure you have some sort of formal written statement about the transaction. Last thing you need is the guy changing his mind 5 years from now and suing you to get his bird back. I would suggest making a bill of sale stating buyer and seller's names and a sale for $1 even if the bird is free because that way it's a done deal. To be nice, you can offer him to stop by and visit the bird. Sounds like he never will if he's too busy to even visit it in his very own house.