Is it normal for handfed baby senegals to be nippy?

[Nir]

I just got my sennie 3 days ago and although she is making progress, anytime i put my finger near her cage or try to put my finger on her head to pet through the cage, she bites it. I know its only been 3 days but just wondering if this is the norm because of the birds whole life changing. And if anyone experienced this in the beginning but then eventually he/she completely changed once bonded. last couple days i always let her out in morning. Today i changed my room a bit so her play tree is right next to my work desk this way i can spend time being near her without touching her as much to just get to know her.And we did make good progress today.

1 thing to add. she is not shy about coming out at all. As soon as i open door, she comes out and goes up to his play gym on top of the cage and chills there. but she still doesn't let my finger or hand go anywhere near hier . However she accepts any treats i give and wont bite if i give her treats. But if i have nothing on my hand she will always bite or go away. but still working slowly.

we are making great progress though. She slowly started taking food from my hand yesterday and today i was able to step her up after a gazillion bites. (i mean bites where she actually latches on to and presses hard . it drew blood once). Throughout the day i have been practicing her to step up without biting my finger. Its getting better and hopefully she wont bite as much later.

Just wondering if this is normal? I have my reasons of why i think my breeder might have done the very minimal handling while handfeeding. It just doesnt make sense why she would be this afraid of being handled when she was handfed. But maybe this is because of her journey of being shipped and beingin a completely new place. But what you guys think? I am well aware of what happens when she goes through maturity but i wanted to know if a handfed baby acting like this is normal?

please keep in mind that this is nothing with the bird. We are making great progress and will continue to do so. But this is more towards my breeder. Also there is a big bald spot on back of my birds neck which the breeder told me he was going to tell me but forgot. He said it was because of another bird "preening her to energetically." I had also told him to please handle her as much as possible and he said he would. Lastly she barely eats the pellets that she was weaned on. She does eat fruits that i cut out for her though. So i am kind of upset with the breeder since i feel like i was lied to and deceived. And i am not a person who takes being lied to lightly.

[cml]

anytime i put my finger near her cage or try to put my finger on her head to pet through the cage, she bites it.

Then dont put your finger through the bars. To counter biting, you must also work to prevent situations in which the problem occurs.

we are making great progress though. She slowly started taking food from my hand yesterday and today i was able to step her up after a gazillion bites. (i mean bites where she actually latches on to and presses hard . it drew blood once). Throughout the day i have been practicing her to step up without biting my finger. Its getting better and hopefully she wont bite as much later.

After three days, I would say you are rushing it. As I replied above, to deal with biting, you need to be aware of what's causing it, and right now your stepping up training is obviously distressing your parrot to the point of biting.
Rather then doing step up training, why are you not doing target training inside the cage? This is a powerful tool for further training, and with it you can train step up and get it to work without any biting. See michael's basic taming article for this: www.trainedparrot.com/taming
I know you've said that you have been researching, but read through it again, because as it seems you are stressing through some very important steps, which can have bad consequenses later.

Just wondering if this is normal? I have my reasons of why i think my breeder might have done the very minimal handling while handfeeding. It just doesnt make sense why she would be this afraid of being handled when she was handfed. But maybe this is because of her journey of being shipped and beingin a completely new place. But what you guys think? I am well aware of what happens when she goes through maturity but i wanted to know if a handfed baby acting like this is normal?

Nipping is very normal, and from the sounds of it, you might be reinforcing it into biting. Your little parrot is scared, in a new environment and not used to you, its natural that she doesnt want you handling her. Give her time to acclimatize to her new home and you. Then work slooooowly to build a bond. Birds are unlike many other pets, then dont love you for no reason, you have to work to build trust, despite being handfed.
To be honest, handfed or parent-raised, both have their problems, but handfed chicks are known to easier develop behavioral issues later on.

My advice to you is to slow down, read through Michaels guides again, and dont expect too much from your parrot in the near future. Work on taming and build your bond slowly, and I am sure it will work out.

[Nir]

Thanks cml. I had concerns since the breeder didnt let me know that a part of my sennies hair was missing and other things. I obviously dont put my fingers in cage anymore. Also the reason i dont clicker train inside cage is because my sennie is outside usually all day. He is not shy about coming outside and usually after breakfast, i let her out. so i train her outside with no problem.

I just wanted to know if it was normal since most people told me that theirs had no problem when they were baby. only time problems started is when they matured. But i will give her as much space as needed for now. i rearranged the room so she can just be near me and hang out. I guess i need to focus on clicker train more instead of trying to go straight to stepping up.

But hopefully your right and that he is just scared.

[cml]

To be honest, I believe most people have problems with their parrots from time to time, so you're not alone Nir. I agree most problems probably are worse/surface when the parrots get older, I can only relate to my guys, some problems we had when they were young are gone, but new things pop up as well.

Its important to understand that you are setting a standard, and starting to teach your bird whats okay, and whats not even now. Bad behavior that you unconsiously encourage now, may turn out to develop to nasty problems later. Biting, or nipping is such a thing. I believe in prevention first and foremost. Dont put yourself in situations that will result in a bite, and learn to read your parrots body language. How to handle an actual bite is a hard question, as ignoring an amazon beak isnt an option. I am nowadays convinced that removing the hand, and then ignoring the parrot completely is the best way to go here, and Ive had huge help from the forum with this in the beginning when we got Stitch.

I dont think you should let your parrot out yet, I think that is overdoing it. It doesnt seem to me as she is comfortable enough yet. People advocate different methods here, but Ive personally based my approach on Michaels guide on basic taming, which I linked in my previous post.
Get the parrot comfortable in its surroundings, then work on getting her comfortable with your presence. Sit close to the cage, read out loud, and used be around her. Then after a few days, start offering treats through the bars. Do this until the parrot is comfortable with accepting treats from your hand (this may take alot of time, dont be discouraged if it takes more than a few days). In our case with Leroy, my wife offered a sunflower seed to him, multiple times a day for a few hours. After a few days he finally took it.
Now's the time to start target training, inside the cage. Get your parrot to be kick ass at targeting inside the cage, because as Michaels guide says, its an awesome tool for further training.

With target training you can then let your parrot out, because you now have a non-negative way of getting your parrot back into the cage again. You can also work on step up, as you can target your Sennie onto your hand (and thus avoid the biting). Read Michaels articles on how to go about this.

Hope that helps, and dont hesitate to ask for help, because as I hope you know, this forum is a great place with a lot of people willing to help =)!

EDIT: Oh, and I completely agree that it was very bad of your breeder not to tell you about the bald spot, but hopefully that isnt a problem, as her sibling and/or parents wont pluck your sennie anymore now. Just make sure the skin looks okay =)!

[marie83]

The majority of baby birds will nip, they test things with their beaks and play in the same way a puppy does, very very few will actually bite with intention at such a young age but there is a danger of teaching them to do so.
Cml has given you good advice on how to prevent this.

[Nir]

Well he accepts food from my hands now for sure. First time I clicker trained her, she did well actually and she does accept food from anyone ( I let my roommates feed her with my supervision for socialization purposes). It's only when I have no food that bad things happen lol. I feel like since I let her out already that I still should? What you think? I normally work by my computer so I let her out and I bring her to the play tree next to my computer. Then I basically work and interact with her all day.

Also question. She always calls for me to give her breakfast in morning. I gave her pellets which are always in her cage 24 hours(upon my breeders request) but she won't eat that. She will keep yelling in morning until I give her her fruits which usually is a mix of apple, grapes, carrots. And then she eats and is quiet. I feel like maybe I am giving in? Or is that ok to do that?

I think I should go back to basics and go slower. I was moving to fast. I am just going to focus on clicker training her for now to just go to a certain place and give her a treat. Maybe do that for couple days and then think about using that to teach step up.

[cml]

Be careful so you dont reinforce that screaming, see this article:
http://trainedparrot.com/Bad_Rewarding/

Also, I think its great that you have pellets there 24/7, young birds shouldnt be on food management.
What you can do is soften the pellets you provide in the morning, using water or juice. This is how we converted Stitch to a pellet diet in about three days (it might take much longer in some cases).

[marie83]

I was going to suggest softening the pellets a little too. If your going to use fresh juice I would dilute it down with water a little bit before adding it to the pellets. you could give the fresh foods a little later when she has stopped the noise.

[Nir]

Also I noticed that she snaps in a biting motion when I pass by the cage just to add.

Also that's the same pellets she was weaned on so shouldn't she be used to eating it?

[cml]

Also I noticed that she snaps in a biting motion when I pass by the cage just to add.

Also that's the same pellets she was weaned on so shouldn't she be used to eating it?

Why should she? Just because she is weaned doesnt mean she wont regress, and since circumstances are making her agitated and nervous (my guess based on your posts), I think regressing is very likely. It wont hurt to help her get used to the pellets again, its much better than letting her think that screaming means fruit.

Dont expect things to happen just as you've read them, its often generalizations and whats true with one bird isnt always true with another .

A handfed bird is just as, infact even more, likely to develop biting and screaming problems as a parent-raised bird. Handfeeding isnt always so great as you are sometimes led to believe by breeders.

Just because your breeder says she is weaned to the pellets doesnt mean she will eat them without any problems, just as you are noticing now.

The same goes with biting, just because its easier to handle baby-birds doesnt mean yours wont have issues that you need to work out. Especially so if you reinforce it!

I am only trying to help here, but I was under the impression that you've told everbody that youve done a ton of research, but now seem to be struggling with many things that you should know (no offense Nir, I am really trying to help). Your description of the stepping up process was one of these pointers, and the snapping part another, I think it sounds like you are trying too much too fast.

I think you need to slow down, and read through all the basic stuff again, contemplate on it and what you can change/improve. Be sure to read everything, and use the videos as a compliment. We're all here to help .