Is it normal for handfed baby senegals to be nippy?

[Pricey_boy]

It's normal if you only had him 3 days than he's still adjusting this could take months so be patient.

Your breeder probably did a good job with this bird but put yourself in his shoes, you get put in a new environment, new cage with new surroundings and sounds that he's never seen. He doesn't know that your safe yet.
Just imagine big hands coming toward you.

Breeders are suppose to do minimal handling because if the breeder handles a lot then the bird could bond with them and you don't want that.

[Eurycerus]

Dont expect things to happen just as you've read them, its often generalizations and whats true with one bird isnt always true with another .

This is completely true. Each parrot is unique, like people. What works well for one won't work well for another. This is glaringly obvious with Nika and Diggy. One is aggressive and the other sensitive, fearful. You should keep that in mind with your new friend.

I am only trying to help here, but I was under the impression that you've told everbody that youve done a ton of research, but now seem to be struggling with many things that you should know (no offense Nir, I am really trying to help). Your description of the stepping up process was one of these pointers, and the snapping part another, I think it sounds like you are trying too much too fast.

This brings up a good couple points. First, I would like to say, being book knowledgeable is very different from the hands on experience of dealing with an actual parrot. I was in for a rude awakening when I first got Nika. I didn't expect things to be easy but wow. Second, I think you need to take a step back and look at what's going on from your new friend's perspective. She was just wrenched from her familiar surroundings and jammed into a new world with new people, sights, and new expectations. I remember being surprised how well Nika was doing considering, and you should be too. You need to be sweet, gentle, and calm. I would say that yes you're taking things too fast. Even if you think she's ready for it, do things slower. Trust me it's worth it.

Please do not do things that result in aggression. This means if she nips you through the bars, stop. If she bites the air when you walk too close, walk further away, or slow down. Stop causing her aggression. This is crucial. You are just reinforcing this bad behavior and it will only get worse. You should start earning her trust. If that means just sitting quietly next to the cage, talking in a calm voice for the next few days, do that. If that means, just targeting her around the cage and feeding her treats, do that. Be gentle and kind to this little creature. She deserves it.

[Andromeda]

Everyone here has given you great advice and I don't really have much to add, but I did want to touch on one thing:

She always calls for me to give her breakfast in morning. I gave her pellets which are always in her cage 24 hours(upon my breeders request) but she won't eat that. She will keep yelling in morning until I give her her fruits which usually is a mix of apple, grapes, carrots. And then she eats and is quiet. I feel like maybe I am giving in? Or is that ok to do that?

I know cml mentioned this was reinforcement but I just wanted to elaborate on that slightly.

"Positive reinforcement" is when you introduce a reward following a behavior, and it leads to an increase in the frequency of that behavior. Positive reinforcement is very effective, and clicker training, target training, and all kinds of other tricks you can teach your bird are accomplished using this method.

Right now you are introducing a reward (fruit) following a behavior (screaming) and so you are using positive reinforcement to reinforce the screaming! This will lead to an increase in the screaming, specifically in regards to food because the bird learns "screaming gets me yummy food, when I want yummy food I should scream and not stop until I get it."

You need to ignore the screaming, and the very last thing you should do is directly reward it (especially with food, but attention is also rewarding). If she's not eating her pellets right now obviously she needs something to eat, but do not give her food if she's screaming. Only give her food if she's being quiet.

Birds learn quickly so even though you've only reinforced the screaming a few times she may scream louder and longer in the short term (since it worked in the past) but if you ignore the behavior and only offer a reward (food) when she is quiet after some time it will go away.

[Nir]

Thanks for the awesome posts guys. Nd your all right that being book knowledgeable is not the same thing as implementing it and that's why I was a bit confused.

Thing with the breakfast is that I tried ignoring but she just keeps yelling for it. So how about this. What if I put in her breakfast BEFORE she starts screaming. She usually wakes up and screams at like 8 so what if I put in her breakfast at 730? This way she won't have to scream?

So today I am seeing this as a new start. No more pushing his buttons to make her feel uneasy. Today I started with some target training inside cage and it went well. Then I opened cage and she came up and we continued target training on too of cage and everything went well. She went to target and touched stick I clicked and gave her treat and praised her every time. Now I am going to give her space while I start working but I am going to target her in a stick so I can move her 10 feet from her cage to the play tree so we can be near each other where we can still communicate but not to close where she feels like I am in her space. Then my plan for today is to do another 1-2 sessions of just target training that's it.

Any thoughts on this?

[Nir]

Ok well I targeted her on stick fine but then when I took her to the tree, she didn't want to get of the perch to the stick and was showing a bit of uneasy since she was moving up towards my hand in the perch so I decided to put her back on top of the play stand on cage instead and give her some space. I will try again after next target training session maybe in like 4-5 hours before her dinner.

also please guys keep reading this thread. i will use this thread as a journal so i will write here every time i do any training with her or interaction so you guys can give your opinions. this way i can correct my mistakes and keep doing anything that i am doing right.

[cml]

Thing with the breakfast is that I tried ignoring but she just keeps yelling for it. So how about this. What if I put in her breakfast BEFORE she starts screaming. She usually wakes up and screams at like 8 so what if I put in her breakfast at 730? This way she won't have to scream?

See, now you are starting to think about prevention =).

So today I am seeing this as a new start. No more pushing his buttons to make her feel uneasy. Today I started with some target training inside cage and it went well. Then I opened cage and she came up and we continued target training on too of cage and everything went well. She went to target and touched stick I clicked and gave her treat and praised her every time. Now I am going to give her space while I start working but I am going to target her in a stick so I can move her 10 feet from her cage to the play tree so we can be near each other where we can still communicate but not to close where she feels like I am in her space. Then my plan for today is to do another 1-2 sessions of just target training that's it.

Personally I would slow down a bit more, if you had progress with target training in the cage, thats great, and I would keep up the positive spirit this is creating, for you and your bird both. I wouldnt have moved passed that in a day, but then again I am not there and can see whats happening.

I wouldnt remove your bird from the cage until I was confident that she is calm and happy about her new environment, but again, its up to you how you do it.

Targeting her onto a stick is a great start, and actually how I think how you should teach step up to a bird that is fearful of hands. This is how we taught it to Leroy, who was an aviary parent-raised bird before he came to us, with no handling previously. Target your parrot to the stick and then over a course of days or weeks (not a day dammit ), slowly decrease the ammount of perch in your hand until you are targeting your bird onto your hand/finger. Eventually she will step up without a hassle, trust me !

Over all I think you are doing well, just that you are rushing things, you aint in a hurry! I can understand, because I did the same with Stitch, but you really have NOTHING to gain by going to fast here. Patience, hard work, and a little luck will see that you will build a great bond with your new sennie.

Oh, since you've written his and hers, she and he, is it a female or a male, and whats your new birds name?

Cheers.

[Nir]

oops. always get confused when i type. its a her. her name is kiwi .

Okay i will revision the plan a bit. I think she is definitely very comfortable with coming out of cage but not comfortable yet with coming to tree. The cage is still not too far so i can still communicate with her from my work area so i will just leave her there . only thing i will do though is to click target training around her cage top area . Maybe another session today or possibly 2 (might just do 1). And that will be all for the day. Meanwhile i will keep talking to her from where i sit and stuff.

that's the plan for now.

[Andromeda]

Thing with the breakfast is that I tried ignoring but she just keeps yelling for it.

Let's say on day one the parrot screams and gets food. The screaming was positively reinforced so in the future it is more likely to scream when it wants food.

Let's say on day two you decide to ignore it, and hold out for a while, but the screaming just continues for longer than day one and eventually the parrot gets food. Now the duration of the screaming was reinforced meaning the parrot learns it has to scream longer in order to get food.

Let's say on day three you decide to ignore it again, and you do ignore it---for even longer than on day two---but eventually you give in as the screaming doesn't stop. Again, the duration was reinforced, but this time the parrot learned it had to scream even longer than it did on day two to get food!

This is called "shaping" and in this case what is being shaped is the duration of the screaming as the parrot learns it has to scream for longer and longer periods of time before it is "rewarded" with food.

So how about this. What if I put in her breakfast BEFORE she starts screaming. She usually wakes up and screams at like 8 so what if I put in her breakfast at 730? This way she won't have to scream?

Definitely try this, but be prepared for the screaming to eventually begin again. Hopefully it won't and that will be the end of it, but as the bird grows accustomed to being fed at 7:30 then it may start anticipating its food at that time and begin screaming earlier in the morning.

[Eurycerus]

So how about this. What if I put in her breakfast BEFORE she starts screaming. She usually wakes up and screams at like 8 so what if I put in her breakfast at 730? This way she won't have to scream?

Definitely try this, but be prepared for the screaming to eventually begin again. Hopefully it won't and that will be the end of it, but as the bird grows accustomed to being fed at 7:30 then it may start anticipating its food at that time and begin screaming earlier in the morning.

Although this is possible, I just haven't seen it happen. I cover Nika (and Diggy) since we live and sleep in the same room. Primarily because she needs more sleep than I do and because I'd probably wake her up accidentally if she was uncovered. I feed her at 7:45 every weekday but on weekends she'll sleep in till 9 or later and then I get up and feed her. I would worry about the screaming issue you created than the possibility of her screaming when she anticipates being fed.

[Nir]

did another session at end of day and it went fine. just target trained her on top of the cage. How many more sessions of just target training before i try to teach her to step up? She usually steps up on a perch without needing to target her but then if she stays on the perch too long, she starts going towards my finger curiously and i end up putting her back down fast because i know whats coming. I only get her on perch right now to get her back in cage. She comes out herself.