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African Grey noise

Want to teach your bird talk? Learn about and discuss methods for training birds to vocalize and mimic different sounds on cue.

Re: African Grey noise

Postby Pajarita » Wed Sep 03, 2014 11:33 am

Wolf wrote: But then ,Pajarita , when you describe the meeting of one parrot with another you describe the very same way that humans do the same type of meeting as you have both parrot one and human one saying their own name and then parrot two and human two repeating ones name and adding their own name. so you identified two names where as I identified a possible query and a possible name. Not really any difference, as in neither your example of in mine did we either one of us say this is what was said, but we both said that this appears to be what is happening in this particular instance. so you don't agree with it when I do this but you turn around and do exactly the same thing to refute me, so you accept it when you do it. That sounds a lot like a double standard to me and we really don't need double standards.


No, no, you misunderstood. What I described was the way they identify one another by a name they announce themselves (this is based on the same scientific study that told us about the parents naming their chicks in the nest). This was to illustrate why I thought it unlikely that the second noise was the name the bird had given to its new owner, as you proposed -namely because, if they do this in the wild, it has not been observed yet. What they did observe was the parents naming their chicks and these chicks using the name its parents gave him to introduce himself (and, in many cases, using their name at the beginning of flock vocalizations (as if they were saying: "So and so here -and then proceeding to verbalize the communication) and the other birds using the name the first bird introduced himself with for it. Not double standard, a different concept.

And yes, you are correct in that they do have a language. As little as we have been able to find out about birds, we do know that scientists have been able to identify over 500 'words' or 'phrases' in parrots languages. And yes, again, not only dolphins and whales, songbirds also use syntax (or grammar) on their songs.

As to trying to figure out what the vocalizations mean... well, I wish I could help you but, in truth, I doubt anybody would be able to without been there for a few days and observing them all the time. I am able to tell what my amazons vocalizations mean but they are very easy birds to understand because their 'phrases' are so distinct from one another and they are such predictable birds. I can also tell what my senegals are saying but I can't really tell the difference with the conures unless it's an alarm call - my cockatoos are not that easy, either, because they sound the same (to my ear, I am sure a computer would find the differences) when they are flock calling and when they are a bit annoyed or just plain excited, and my grays are also another big mystery most of the time but they hardly ever make a sound anyway - most of my birds are pretty quiet during the day.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
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Re: African Grey noise

Postby sgtpepper » Wed Sep 03, 2014 1:58 pm

It is very hard to find out, and today we have been paying attention to details that can trigger off this response from him , but nothing proved to be "the one".
We were thinking about when we firstly heard this noise, and it was actually the same day that we brought them home, and they were still in the transport cage, with us waiting nearby for them to get into the big cage.

About their diet, we are now trying to introduce them to NutriBird pellets, but after being on a seed diet for three years, they are very reluctant about eating anything new. We have started with 75% seed 25% pellet and then , gradually, we put them more pellets instead of seed.
We let the feeding bowls all day inside the cage and we add more food if it's needed.

A few hours ago, when he was screaming, we tried putting in some seeds because they only had pellets, to see if hunger was the problem. But immediately after eating the seeds, he did the noise again.

Another cause might be that they want outside, tomorrow we will let them before dinner, as today we made an "outside plan" depending on when the sun sets here and when they take their dinner.We will see how it goes in a couple of days.

We have started writing in a notebook all their activity. He screamed at 7, then at 8.20, then at 8.55...................................................
sgtpepper
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Re: African Grey noise

Postby Wolf » Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:46 pm

Well the actual purpose of what I was trying to get across is that when the bird speaks to listen as they are trying to communicate and with careful observation we can at least get some understanding of what they want.

You need to change how and what you are feeding your Greys before you create a bigger problem. Yes, you have it right that an all seed diet is bad for them. Your error is that both seeds and pellets are too high in protein and fats, as well as that you are free feeding both of these.
Pellets were formulated to replace the seed mixes that we feed our birds, the concept was that with seeds the bird was able to pick out his preferred seeds and leave the rest, but with pellets everything is ground up so small that the bird has to eat everything. The problem is that they created the formula from the nutritional requirements of chickens. This has resulted in a pellet that is too high in fat, protein and sugar for our parrots.
so what you really need to do is to feed either a chop or gloop for breakfast with enough to get through the day and then feed either a high quality seed mix or pellet for their dinner.
Wolf
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Re: African Grey noise

Postby Pajarita » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:54 am

Well, with the exception of the diet (I agree with Wolf), you seem to be doing everything right and, sometimes, with screamers, it just takes a good firm daily routine, a solar schedule (I am aware of the difficulty of this because of where you are located geographically), a good diet, lots and lots of out-of-cage time and company and a looooong wait. Just to give you an example, it took me 10 months to get a screaming cockatoo to stop. He is fine now but he drove us CRAZY with his screams for months and months until he gradually and slowly decreased the frequency. I've never had a bonded pair of grays so I don't really have any personal point of reference for their behavior but, in my personal experience with other species, the bonded pairs tend to be quieter than single birds for the simple reason that as they already have a mate, they don't need to call for one. My grays are both pretty quiet birds. They do the electronic-sounding POOOOOO call, the one that sounds like two pieces of wood being smacked together, the low cooing and that's about it. They never, ever scream, not even when they are mad. My Sophie would say in a very firm and annoyed tone of voice: "Shut up!" to the other birds when they scream and Pookey would mumble to herself sounding for all the world as a cantankerous old man when she knows she has to go back into the birdroom and leave my husband's shoulder (her favorite spot) but that's about it except for some human words or phrases.
Pajarita
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Flight: Yes

Re: African Grey noise

Postby sgtpepper » Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:03 pm

Well, you are probably right that some pellet food is not meeting the requirement for parrots.
I do not now the exact percent of how many fats fibers and other ingredients they need but i do not think this specific pellet food is made for chickens.

This is the link with the food: http://www.zooplus.dk/shop/fugl/fuglefo ... ige/248858

What is your feeding schedule? Are you feeding only vegetables in the morning?
Also, Pajarita, did you ever find out the reason/s for your cockatoo's screaming?

Today they were not so loud, only in the morning. In the evening we have let them outside and there are still there, on an improvised perch in front of the cage. They have been there now for about 3 hours, it's dark now and we are waiting for them to get inside the cage.
They seem a bit more at peace now:)
sgtpepper
Cockatiel
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 63
Location: Denmark
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Congo African grey
Flight: Yes

Re: African Grey noise

Postby Wolf » Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:59 pm

Ok, I did not say that the feed is made for chickens but the values that are used when adding vitamins and minerals as well as deciding the amounts of fat and proteins are all derived from studies done on chickens.
To date there has never been a study done for establishing nutritional values for parrots using parrots. Since this would require long term studies of how each item is utilized by the parrots body as well as at what levels they begin to interfere with each other , at what levels and percentages the would become toxic and so forth. The feed companies will not do this due to the expense involved, but there were studies done using chickens and these are the values that the feed companies use when they formulate the feeds that we use to feed our parrots.
There are over 300 different species of parrots, each actually requiring their own blend of nutrients for optimal health and these time consuming and expensive studies would need to be done for each species of parrot, again for the feed companies this is not cost effective, so these studies will never be done.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
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Re: African Grey noise

Postby Pajarita » Fri Sep 05, 2014 10:22 am

Well, for one thing, the pellets you gave the link for have artificial coloring and that's a no-no with birds. They also have a Hyacinth macaw, an African gray and a Red Lored Amazon picture on the label, three species that have completely different dietary requirements.

And, actually, there have been (and still are) studies done on parrots dietary requirements (there is the famous Roudybush one, the one with the amazons, etc) but the HUGE problem with all these studies is that they were and are all short-term (difficult to do long term on animals that live 50 and 60 years) and the scientists have no reliable baseline to compare them to (some test their poop, some kill them and check their internal organs, etc) in terms of what the wild parrots eat re: levels of protein, fat, fiber, etc. (again, not an easy thing to do as they all eat seasonal diets which doesn't happen in captivity - and the only way to figure out anything is trapping them, killing them and analyzing crop, proventriculus, ventriculus and intestines contents).

I feed gloop accompanied by raw produce (one leafy green, one veggie, one fruit) in the morning and a measured amount of seeds (a gray would get 1/4 of a good quality cockatiel mix -some striped sunflowers- and a nut -an almond, half a walnut, a pistachio, etc- for dinner.

Freddie (the screaming cockatoo) was used to screaming all day long (21 years of it) because he was left alone in his cage while the owners worked. He was lonely and became a screamer because of it. But, here, even though he came out and spent many hours with me, the hours he was in his cage (unavoidable during quarantine), he screamed all the time and had a hard time falling asleep at night even though he was on a solar schedule - any little noise would wake him up and he would start screaming (and cockatoos screams sound like a freaking pterodactyl! I am talking LOUD AND LONG!!!! But he is fine now and he doesn't even scream when he hears us talking outside the birdroom door at night (I always whisper but my husband forgets sometimes).

Ah, something I forgot to add before, I have found that wild-caughts are much more vocal than captive-bred when it comes to flock calls and I am thinking there might be a possibility yours are wild-caught.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11614
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
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Flight: Yes

Re: African Grey noise

Postby Wolf » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:03 pm

I have a chapter on nutrition that I use quite often as a baseline for my research into avian nutrition, it is from a book on avian medicine and goes into more depth than most people want to read through, as it is a difficult read. Unfortunately it is a little dated as it is from the 80s and 90s, but it is still very useful. It is also in pdf format so I can't post the information from it on this forum, I have tried copy and paste as well as posting the entire chapter. If you want any of it or even all of it and PM me with an email address I will be happy to e mail it too you. There are about 50 chapters to it.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
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Flight: Yes

Re: African Grey noise

Postby sgtpepper » Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:16 pm

We have tried a lot of vegetables and fruit, but most of it they throw away or are not even interested in it.
We have tried also putting vegetables in the cage but they remained untouched, also we have tried to feed them mashed potatoes, warm oatmeal with a little bit of honey but still, no interest.
All these foods we mentioned we ate alongside them. The only thing they eat are some grapes, and small pieces of apples.

The only vegetable they ate were boiled green beans so far, but even that they threw away the second time
.
We also had attempts with leaves.

The only thing they eat are those darn seeds!!


PS. Wolf, it would be great if you would send the book! i will send you a PM with the e-mail
sgtpepper
Cockatiel
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 63
Location: Denmark
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Congo African grey
Flight: Yes

Re: African Grey noise

Postby Wolf » Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:02 pm

When trying to change their diet, you have got to be persistent as well as patient, this is not something that is going to happen quickly, rather look at it as an ongoing process. If you only provide the seed mix or pellets for dinner and chop the fruits and vegetables no larger than a pea and give them that to eat for the time from breakfast to dinner time they will begin to eat them. Yes, they will get mildly hungry until they start eating the fresh food, but that is, in my opinion better than liver disease or other problems that are caused by a poor diet. Once you get them to start eating the right foods then they will not be too hungry and the process will take longer but as long as you remain persistent they will learn to try other foods.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

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