Is learning to talk environmental or personality?

[Michael]

Some people say that even in a species known to be good talkers, some parrots will never talk. I am wondering if this has to do with that individual parrot's personality/genetics and cannot be changed or if it is directly impacted by environmental factors?

Perhaps the parrots that never learn to talk are just never talked to? Perhaps the parrots in an auditory rich environment just have more opportunities to pick up talking. The only way to disprove the environmental dependency for learning to talk is if someone here can say they have two parrots of the same known-to-talk species raised in the same environment where one talks and one does not. I wonder what people have to say about this.

[miajag]

I'm obviously no expert here, but I've read that parrots will often only talk when they feel very safe and comfortable (don't want to unnecessarily draw attention to themselves otherwise). The book on Quaker parrots I have says that even something as simple as cage height can have a lot to do with it -- a parrot kept lower is less likely to talk (again, because they feel insecure and don't want to draw attention to themselves) but that same parrot could become a chatterbox if moved to a higher location.

[Mona]

I think there is hard-wiring involved. That is why some species are better talkers than other species. In other words, I do think there is something innate.

Having said that, I think scientists are learning that no experience can be clearly categorized "innate" or "learned". Every experience is a blend of capacity, tendencies, experiences and what has been reinforced previously. Speech is one of those traits that is just never static. It is always changing and evolving. I know that Phinney's talking ability has progressed as she has aged (she's now 13 1/2 years old) and that it also became more interesting when we brought Kiri (another African grey) home. Kiri is not really a talker but I honestly think that Phinney felt threatened by her presence and has started talking a lot more appropriately in context since Kiri has joined the flock. It is almost competitive.

Fun topic...Gotta go though.

Thanks!

[windharper]

I have thought about this question as Tamber talks and Teyla doesn't. I credit Tamber's talking to the fact that he started out hand raised and then ended up in a pet store for a long time. He had no other Senegals around. The neighboring cage had an African Grey. Nearby was about 20 cockatiels and 6 lovebirds. This wasn't just a bird shop but a shop that had many dogs (across from his cage), rabbits, hamsters, fish, etc. There was always a good quantity of people in the shop.

So considering flock dynamics, I think Tamber identified with his human flock more so than the birds around him. Then there was one young lady who used to work with him. He would say, "Good morning" and several other words just like her. I talk to him all the time. I identify everything I do around him and try to be constant in the words I use to describe it. If I hear him talking, even rooms away, I answer him.

Then there's Teyla. She was raised by her parents with very little human interaction. She spent all her time with her nestmate, who picked on her, bullied her. She was one fearful bird. She always identified with her bird flock and even after Tico went to his new home, she would respond to every crow or blue jay she heard outside! Only in the last few months as I have worked with her has she finally started to care about her human flock. It is interesting to note that when I go to Teyla's cage, Tamber will start chirping like a cockatiel to get my attention away from her.

Based upon my own limited experience, I believe that environment can have a lot to do with it. I recently saw some footage on Youtube where Starlings were talking. These were birds raised by humans and not out in the wild. I felt this supported an environmental effect. I know we can't rule out that some species are more able to talk, for instance, I have never heard of a Macaw that didn't talk. One could argue both sides of nature vs. nurture.

[reyz324]

Have you ever heard of an african grey named Einstein at the knoxville zoo?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbrTOcUnjNY&feature=related
i read an article, that calimed they tried to teach other greys to speak/mimic sounds they way einstein does, and had no luck.

[lotus15]

Hmm, good question. In my own experience and looking at my friends with parrots as well, I know a lot of people who have birds with known "talking" species they have had since they were babies, but some talk and some don't. That was the case with my family as well. So I think that it's less environment perhaps and more whatever their nature is? But that's just in the small sample I'm going from.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

Yes. I'm sure the answer to this question, just as for all "nature vs. nurture" questions is "Yes". Both innate and learned traits affect the ultimate behavior.I don't have a ton of experience with different birds, but it seems to me that there are several components to a parrot learning to talk:

The desire to communicate using sound.

Exposure to human speech as a form of communication.

The ability to hear the sounds of human speech and recognize a repeated sound.

The ability to reproduce the sounds which are recognized.

A failure in any one of these things would probably lead to an individual that doesn't "talk". If the bird doesn't really want to interact at all, then it probably won't be motivated to try to communicate. If it doesn't recognize the sounds we make as meaningful, it may latch on to other sounds that seem more predictable or meaningful, like the doorbell. I know I have trouble parsing foreign languages when I am first learning them -- it is just so much noise until I can begin to pick out familiar repeated sounds. For a bird to be able to do this with human speech is quite remarkable to me. And finally, some birds have a harder time than others actually reproducing the sounds.

One thing I don't know is the extent to which it makes a difference that this exposure happen early in life. Is there an age at which, if the bird doesn't talk, it is unlikely to ever do so? Certainly humans are much more able to easily pick up new languages when we are very young, although it is possible to do so as an adult as well.

[captwest]

Back to Micheal's original questions, I guess i've had some experience with same species raised in the same environment, mostly with holding back babies to be used as breeders. Some birds are talkers and some are not, no real startling revelations here.I have noticed that nontalkers seem to pick up words and phrases better from other birds than from their surroundings. And of course there's the birds that mimic sounds better than words, i'm sure that there's many CAG owners that can attest to this but it's true for other species as well.There's also the birds that are going to be talkers no matter what, i have a breeding pair of DYHs who have almost no human contact but the male will cheerfully say "Good Morning, what cha doin ?" as he tries to tear thru the cage wire to rip the meat from your bones, of course he says everything that all the other birds say too.I don't think there's much you can do with a nontalker other than put it around talking birds, and there 's not much you can do to shut up a talker. I sure that they're all a product of their environment but yet have their own unique personalities, sort of like us.

[drif]

I know that Phinney's talking ability has progressed as she has aged (she's now 13 1/2 years old) and that it also became more interesting when we brought Kiri (another African grey) home. Kiri is not really a talker but I honestly think that Phinney felt threatened by her presence and has started talking a lot more appropriately in context since Kiri has joined the flock. It is almost competitive.

I think this is true. My gcc would say good morning, hello, nite nite, and occasionally repeat something I said if I was on the phone. I recently adopted a five year old eclectus who says hello and I love you along with a few other things that I haven't figured out yet. Since I brought home the ekie the gcc has started saying a lot of things that I don't even remember repeating to him that he must have picked up over the years from normal conversation.