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delight will not behave.

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delight will not behave.

Postby GMV » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:56 am

i wanted to fully flight delight, so we gave it a shot, but delight is a brat when he is fully flighted!
(delight is my GCC) lily is flighted, but she is very appropriate with it. delight just got worse and worse (flying over to us at the worse of times, biting, ECT.) we could not take it anymore, and got him clipped. but we do want him to fly again! we need help.
GMV
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Re: delight will not behave.

Postby Wolf » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:12 pm

You are very sparse with the information as to what is going on here and to properly answer your questions try to describe what is going on when Delight is, for example, biting.
I can say a couple of things, the first is that Delight really just wants to cuddle with you and her favorite spot for this is on your shoulder and probably right at the base of your neck where it joins the shoulder. This seems to hold true for most if not all GCCs, How could you expect a bird to be obedient, as it is just not in their nature to do so. They want to be with you and they do not understand it when you don't want to be with them. They are flock animals and are never alone from the day they are born until the time they die, it goes against their nature and they must do as their nature dictates.
Wolf
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Re: delight will not behave.

Postby GMV » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:06 pm

well, you're right about the shoulder part. i realize your point, but delight was very obediant before we let him fly. we did not expect him to obey, so we trained him. but it seems as though he lost knowledge and manners since we let him fly. he bites when we try to train him, or stop him from flying at inappropriate times. before he flew, he would let you do anything to him, and train him all day. Im sorry for not giving enough info.
just ask if you have more questions.
he is 8 months old. so i don't think its terrible 2s
GMV
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Re: delight will not behave.

Postby Wolf » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:26 pm

I have no idea as to what is an inappropriate time, this may be due to the fact that I also have other animals in the house and because of this, if I don't have time to watch over my birds they are tucked away safely in their cages. On the same note, I am presently working on installing new flooring throughout the majority of my house and Kiki, my Senegal, has decided that her place while I am doing this, is on my shoulder or at the base of my neck on my back, where she isn't shaken up to much while I drive the pieces of flooring into place and secure them. Is this an inappropriate time or merely inconvenient and to whom?
I also know that you can't train a parrot all day and if you persist in trying to do so that you end up with a bird that resents training and will end up biting when you attempt to train them any further.
I know that when a bird is young it is very forgiving and you can get away with things that you can't with an adult bird and I know that when a bird is deprived of its primary means of escape from danger or undesired behavior that it realizes that it must comply to a greater degree than it normally would to the undesired behaviors that are forced upon it. I know that even the clipped bird will only be forced so far before it refuses further undesired behaviors and resorts to biting.
What you are not seeing here is the difference in the way that you think and respond to things and the way that these birds think and respond to things. This further complicates things because things that to you are normal, and appropriate are to a bird not only abnormal and inappropriate, but also abusive to them. You and I are predators and we think like predators, we live in a social framework created by predators for predators. Parrots are not predators, they do not think or act like predators and do not live in a social framework by and for predators. You should think about this a little bit.
Consider, if you will, that you have three birds, one who may or may not have some serious medical problems to contend with and you are having problems with the other two and you have no idea as to why you are having these problems or how to address them properly. Honestly, the problems that you are having and the problems that most of the people that ask for help in solving with their birds are mostly caused by this difference in how we think. In some ways it is quite amusing and in others it is very frustrating for everyone involved, human and bird alike.
Humans and dogs, and even cats all live and think in familiar patterns and for similar reasons, for all practical purposes we basically understand each other. This makes it pretty easy for us to live together. We all have our places, from the alphas on down, we all fall into line and accept this. We mostly do the things that our alphas/ leaders tell us to do.
Birds are different than this, the way that they think is as alien to us as if they came from another planet. Well they don't come from another planet, but they do come from a different world, or more precisely from a different worldview than we do. They do not have alphas/ leaders, and they do things not because they are told to, they do things because they choose to.
When we train a bird, we think that we are teaching the bird what to do, that is our perspective, but from their perspective, it is a different ball park. From their perspective we teach them how to do what we want them to do for us, they then choose to do that or not to do that for us. They choose to do things for us because we give them something they want or because they want to, probably because they love us and like to see us happy. Take a little time and think about this.
Wolf
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Re: delight will not behave.

Postby GMV » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:01 am

thanks for all the help!
the only problem for the in the cage method is that he will scream, unless you are holding him (this is only if hes flighted).
he gets plenty of attention though, atleast 1.5 hours a day, alot of times more.
could it be he hates his toys?
GMV
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Re: delight will not behave.

Postby Pajarita » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:41 am

No, he doesn't hate his toys and it's not because he can now fly. The problem is that you are not spending enough time with him. In my personal experience, GCCs bite only when they are not given enough one-on-one time and for no other reason. 1.5 hours is not enough for a GCC, they are needy birds which want to be on us all the time and, if you don't give it to them, they will bite. It's as simple as that.

Now, there is one thing that you need to understand, parrots are not obedient, they never were and they never will be no matter how much training you give it. The genetic trait (or gene) needed to understand obedience to another (human or bird) is not there. Nature did not put it in their brains because they don't need it. Birds that live in a flock do not obey any other bird, they all do what they want, when they want it. Obedience to rules is a survival tool for a certain type of social group -kind of like a family where the young obeys the elders because it's safest for them to do so. But this doesn't exist in social birds flocks. Their survival tool is 'safety in numbers' and a certain flock structure where there are birds on the outside watching out for predators while the others eat or sleep. When they see one approaching, they call out as they take off and, almost immediately, every single bird in the flock takes off, too. So they hear the 'Watch Out!' call and immediately take off imitating the very first bird which saw the danger. But they are not 'obeying' it, they are 'reacting'.

Baby birds will not bite, will usually not scream (unless they are hungry, scared, lonely, etc) and will stay put where we put them. But not 'teenagers' (yours is a juvenile and almost an adult -the 'terrible twos' is for larger species that mature later in life) or adults. Clipping him does not take care of why he is biting, it just prevents the bird from flying which is his only mode of transportation (how would you like not to be able to walk or run and, instead, only crawl? It would not make you very happy, would it?).

You need to spend four hours a day with him (and that, to a GCC, means on you).
Pajarita
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Re: delight will not behave.

Postby Wolf » Wed Jul 16, 2014 11:57 am

It is possible that there is something in his cage that scares him, it is also possible that he has learned to scream, so that you will come running and pick him up. If he is out of his cage and flighted then he has no reason to scream for you as he will find you himself. Also, if you stop to consider that parrots in their natural state are never alone from birth until death, 1 or 2 hours per day is nothing.
I don't really like to bring up the comparison between life in captivity vs. life in the wild, but on occasion it is the only way that I know to do because it shows what the birds brain is hardwired for. We may get them to accept a difference in the amount of time we spend with them to a degree, but because it is part of their nature to never be alone, they will try to be with us every minute of every day.
I don't like to cage mine at all either but with two 100 lb. puppies and 6 cats in the house, it is the safest thing that I can do in I can't actively watch over them. And it is better for my relationship with my birds because they are aware that I only put them in their cages to protect them when I can not be there for them and I don't have to try to make them stay away from me, which teaches them that I don't love them or want them with me. After a while they come to resent not being allowed to be with you and this leads to more problems down the road. I prefer to avoid those problems.
Wolf
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Re: delight will not behave.

Postby GMV » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:44 am

i don't give him attention for screaming, i know that's bad.
and btw, there is one weird thing about it. since we got delight clipped, he behaves again now, no more screaming, no more biting, just the way he was. (an inappropriate time is usually to our guests by flying to us around them, who are usually scared of him, or when we are cooking, which is dangerous for him.)
and delight is outside his cage on our "play station" half of the day. so its not like he is in his cage for 8 hrs a day. he is usually in it for like 2-3 hours a day. he also loves everyone in my family, so we each hold him a while. anyway, i guess delight just gets overconfident with attitude when he can fly.
GMV
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Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 313
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Re: delight will not behave.

Postby GMV » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:58 am

yeah, delights back to being a cuddly, playful angel.
GMV
Poicephalus
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
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Flight: Yes

Re: delight will not behave.

Postby Wolf » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:21 am

And insecure and totally dependent on you for protection. My guests know that I have birds and that they may be out if they visit. They know that I do not lock my birds up just because they are coming to visit and they know that they will not be left alone with my birds and that I will remove my birds from them or keep them off of them during their visit whichever they prefer. It is not a problem for me, just a normal part of having them in my life, no different than my dogs or cats. I put up one of those so called magic doors between the bird areas and the kitchen, to keep the birds out of it. you know the screens that close by themselves because of the magnets on the edges.
I would rather work with my parrots about their biting too hard than to ever clip them. flight is just too important for their overall mental and physical health to deprive them of it. The flight center in their brain is connected to every other major center of their brain, from problem solving and visual acuity right down to emotional centers and all of their physical activity centers.
Wolf
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