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Clipped vs. Flighted

Discuss indoor freeflight and managing freeflighted birds around the house. How to live with a flighted parrot.

Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Helga » Tue May 13, 2014 6:31 am

Wolf wrote:
Helga wrote:I wouldn't take away Senegal parrots ability to fly. Mine is fast and agile, she can stop nearly as fast on free air as a bat. I have safety chains at doorways..so they can not be opened freely when bird is free. Cheap and easy way to secure the house..just that chains have to be tight -no room left the bird to escape.
Ofcourse I have to be very careful when I open refrigerators door. She knows that sound, and it's quite a feeling when a Senegal arrives with full speed and stops on ones shoulder.

Sorry about writing mistakes.

I know what you mean, only my Senegal flies at full speed and lands on the side or back of my head.


I have told my sennie that landing on shoulders is ok, but u will not use my head as landing spot. At the moment I'm trying to type this, she's helping me by hanging on my arm and trying to reach the letters with her beak.
Helga
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 4
Number of Birds Owned: 5
Types of Birds Owned: Agapornis personatus 4, Poicephalus senegalus
Flight: Yes

Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Wolf » Tue May 13, 2014 7:30 am

The first several months that Kiki, our Senegal, was with us, she chose to not interact with me if my Lady was at home. I was the one she came to ,to ask for a home and promptly attached to Pam. Several months later she refused to have much to do with my Lady and adopted me, so I have been telling her to stay off of my head. Shoulders are fine, but she prefers my head to land and will move down to my shoulder when I ask her to. It is progress.
She loves my computer, she like my playing videos of other parrots on it, and her favorite thing of all about my computer is to remove the keys.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Navre » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:40 pm

I have ceiling fans (I do not use AC), a tortoise with a heat lamp that is like a little slice of the sun, and kids and friends who come and go all the time. I feel like keeping a bird flighted would be irresponsible, or would, at the very least, result in much more "in cage" time for the bird. My GCC seems like more of a climber than a flyer. She has the ability to control her decent and fly from one side of the cage to the other (about 3 feet).

A note regarding raptors: One day last year, a male mallard duck came crashing down onto the sidewalk in front of my house. I went out to see what had happened. The duck appeared stunned and was bleeding around the beak. I figured I'd watch him and see if he recovered on his own. At some point, something made me look up. There was a large hawk sitting on top of the phone pole, about 30 feet over our heads. My guess is that the hawk had knocked the duck out of the sky and would have come down to finish the job had I not been there. If there are raptors that can knock a fully grown mallard out of the sky (those ducks fly FAST), I don't think I'd even feel comfortable with a macaw outside.
The duck eventually walked toward the lake that is about 300 yards down the street. He'd probably have been killed trying to cross the main street that is between here and there. I was contemplating whether duck bites were in my future when the duck flew off.
Navre
African Grey
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 1075
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Turquoise Green Cheek Conure
Timneh African Grey
Flight: Yes

Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Wolf » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:43 pm

Navre ; First thing is that all my birds fly and I do no clip them both for personal reasons as well as medical and health reasons, birds health.
I am not going to try to convince you to not clip your bird but I don't understand your reasoning and that is what I am asking about. Something about what or how you said what you said just left my mind a blank, so just to help me would you please attempt to clarify you reasoning. Thank you.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Navre » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:30 pm

I feel like there are too many hazards. There are 3 ceiling fans on the first floor where the bird is. There is a heat lamp for tortoise that would burn her severely were she to land on it. The kids come in and out a lot, as do friends, so there are a lot of "open door" hazards.

I understand that a small, unflighted bird on a floor is at risk, too. She seems to hop/fly from one piece of furniture to the next to get around.

The bird was clipped when I got her. I'm not ruling out letting her become flighted but I'm not sure I will, either. I understand that she could still fly away if she were outside, clipped or unclipped. I just figure she's less likely to get outside if she can't fly out the slider.

About the same time I got my CAG in 1990, a Grey flew out the door of a house a few miles from me. There was a lot of press about it at the time. People kept finding the grey in various places around the North Shore. Thing was, every bird that was found and captured was the wrong bird. There were 4 or 5 CAGs found flying around in the area, and none were the missing bird from Nahant. The missing bird never went far. She was found on the beach a few weeks later. They figure that she had flown out the door and over the water. When she touched down in the salt water in the dark, the was probably the end for her. All the press coverage at the time stressed the importance of keeping the birds' wings clipped, including interviews with avian vets at Angell Memorial Hospital. It shocked me that there were all these escaped CAG's flying around north of Boston.

The OP makes a compelling argument for keeping birds flighted, but some of the arguments made in the thread don't seem to hold water upon close examination. Dogs and cats are born with genitals, yet we are routinely told that neutering and spaying these animals makes them happier and healthier. Is this just propaganda aimed at curbing the problem of unwanted puppies and kittens? Maybe. But these are permanent life-altering surgeries that are not only tolerated, but strongly recommended. Kittens adopted from most shelters are spayed and neutered at a very young age, depriving their growing bodies of all sorts of hormones they are supposed to have. Does Sweden lock up vets for neutering cats? It's irreversible.
Criminalizing the clipping of feathers seems like charging one with child abuse for giving a kid a bad haircut. In both cases, it will grow back. I understand that birds are wild and dogs are domesticated, but the argument that "God made them that way" can't apply to one pet and not to another, can it? And I understand that there are psychological effects to clipping wings, but we once had a poodle that would sulk for a week everytime she got a haircut. I imagine the radical hysterectomy she got at 5 probably upset her and changed her life, too. And those parts don't grow back.

It will be a while before I have to decide whether to clip this bird's wings. There will be a lot of things to factor into the decision. I guess the thought of it being a criminal act to clip wings made me angry enough to post. A decision like this should be between you, your bird, and your vet. The government should not be involved. (Now where have I heard a similar argument? :D )
Navre
African Grey
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 1075
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Turquoise Green Cheek Conure
Timneh African Grey
Flight: Yes

Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby GMV » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:53 pm

Navre wrote:I feel like there are too many hazards. There are 3 ceiling fans on the first floor where the bird is. There is a heat lamp for tortoise that would burn her severely were she to land on it. The kids come in and out a lot, as do friends, so there are a lot of "open door" hazards.

I understand that a small, unflighted bird on a floor is at risk, too. She seems to hop/fly from one piece of furniture to the next to get around.

The bird was clipped when I got her. I'm not ruling out letting her become flighted but I'm not sure I will, either. I understand that she could still fly away if she were outside, clipped or unclipped. I just figure she's less likely to get outside if she can't fly out the slider.

About the same time I got my CAG in 1990, a Grey flew out the door of a house a few miles from me. There was a lot of press about it at the time. People kept finding the grey in various places around the North Shore. Thing was, every bird that was found and captured was the wrong bird. There were 4 or 5 CAGs found flying around in the area, and none were the missing bird from Nahant. The missing bird never went far. She was found on the beach a few weeks later. They figure that she had flown out the door and over the water. When she touched down in the salt water in the dark, the was probably the end for her. All the press coverage at the time stressed the importance of keeping the birds' wings clipped, including interviews with avian vets at Angell Memorial Hospital. It shocked me that there were all these escaped CAG's flying around north of Boston.

The OP makes a compelling argument for keeping birds flighted, but some of the arguments made in the thread don't seem to hold water upon close examination. Dogs and cats are born with genitals, yet we are routinely told that neutering and spaying these animals makes them happier and healthier. Is this just propaganda aimed at curbing the problem of unwanted puppies and kittens? Maybe. But these are permanent life-altering surgeries that are not only tolerated, but strongly recommended. Kittens adopted from most shelters are spayed and neutered at a very young age, depriving their growing bodies of all sorts of hormones they are supposed to have. Does Sweden lock up vets for neutering cats? It's irreversible.
Criminalizing the clipping of feathers seems like charging one with child abuse for giving a kid a bad haircut. In both cases, it will grow back. I understand that birds are wild and dogs are domesticated, but the argument that "God made them that way" can't apply to one pet and not to another, can it? And I understand that there are psychological effects to clipping wings, but we once had a poodle that would sulk for a week everytime she got a haircut. I imagine the radical hysterectomy she got at 5 probably upset her and changed her life, too. And those parts don't grow back.

It will be a while before I have to decide whether to clip this bird's wings. There will be a lot of things to factor into the decision. I guess the thought of it being a criminal act to clip wings made me angry enough to post. A decision like this should be between you, your bird, and your vet. The government should not be involved. (Now where have I heard a similar argument? :D )


I am glad you're open minded, that is the best trait an owner can have. A lot of what you're saying sounds very reasonable.
Last edited by GMV on Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
GMV
Poicephalus
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 313
Location: NC
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: [Green-Cheek Conure] [Cockatiel]
[Umbrella Cockatoo]
Flight: Yes

Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Wolf » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:00 pm

Thank you for sharing with me, I just get curious about how people think on occasion.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Peyton » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:42 am

Any week now I should be getting the call that my CAG is ready to come home. The breeder specified in our previous talks that he clips their wings after they have learned to fly. I am doubting that a just weaned CAG would have "learned to fly" in such a short period of time. I am thinking he meant after he/she (will be vet checked and sex determined) clumsily flew about as I am sure learning to fly and more specifically indoor flight will be a difficult task for any beginner flier. I am considering asking the breeder to skip the wing clip, as I would like very much for us both to enjoy indoor flight. Does anyone know if it is required to clip wings for transport via plane? I wouldn't think so, since they are required to be in a carrier. I can't wait for the receiving day. I know all the books and web intel can only prepare you so much.
Don't be intimidated into conformity, take your rightful place in the spectrum and LOVE IT.
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Peyton
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 17
Location: Mississippi
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Congo African Grey
Flight: Yes

Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby FeatherKaeru » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:37 pm

I keep my green cheek conures unclipped. We have cats. When in the same room I keep everyone supervised. And they can get needed benefit of health being flighted. Working those tiny muscles

:gcc: :gcc: :gcc: :gcc: :gcc:
FeatherKaeru
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18
Number of Birds Owned: 5
Types of Birds Owned: Green cheek conure, yellow-sided GCC
Flight: Yes

Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Cockatielcody » Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:00 pm

I have a cockatiel and I don't know if I should get his wings clipped or not because he flies a lot and runs in to things like mirrors and windows and I'm afraid that he will snap his neck some day. But I also have to very active cats that will try get him. Should I clip his wings or not?
Cockatielcody
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 1
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Indian ringneck and a cockatiel
Flight: Yes

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