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Clipped vs. Flighted

Discuss indoor freeflight and managing freeflighted birds around the house. How to live with a flighted parrot.

Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby GreenWing » Sat Jan 26, 2013 7:20 pm

Tiki was clipped when I got her, she is now 1 year old and has yet to have her molt, but she has gained confidence and strength and can fly short distances (to me from about a yard and a half away... she has flown at us when calling her by name, too). After her molt she should be able to fly beautifully.

Personally, I won't ever clip. Senegals are fussy birds as is and require maintenance; being flighted prevents aggression, and allows the bird to get exercise and be happier.
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Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Nir » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:28 am

although i am pro flighted, i will say 1 thing. the argument that even clipped birds can go outside and away is pretty bad. there is a big difference between the bird getting out of house but then landing and a bird who just flys away.
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Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby marie83 » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:25 am

Nir wrote:although i am pro flighted, i will say 1 thing. the argument that even clipped birds can go outside and away is pretty bad. there is a big difference between the bird getting out of house but then landing and a bird who just flys away.


Sorry but I disagree, a clipped bird can get a long way if the air conditions are right, It doesn't even have to appear windy for us to that to happen because thermal pockets can influence it. Also once the bird does land, even if it is nearby there is a high risk of predation compared with an unclipped bird with good flight skills. Thats if it manages to land properly and not crash because it doesn't have landing practice or is too knackered to continue in the first place.

Personally if I lost a bird outside, I would much rather it be a well flighted than unflighted one as it has a much much better chance of surviving until found. Obviously I never want to lose a bird outside in the first place but I'm sure you get what I'm saying.
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Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Nir » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:27 pm

I will continue playing devils advocate.(I am very pro flight)

Your assuming a lot of things first of all. The air needs to be right along with windows and everything open along with no supervision and possibly landing in a danger zone. The chances of this happening and ending bad is very little compared to a flying bird just flying away and eventually dying. I would say that the odds are small enough that it really does not make a valid point compared to the dangers of a flighted bird flying away.

I am pro flight because I make it my duty to teach my bird how to recall and flight training. But many others just keep the bird flighted just because they believe in flight and some actually do it because they are too lazy to clip. That's pretty irresponsible in my opinion. If people decide to keep a bird flighted, they should really work on flight recall and flight training. It will be a long process (I am still working on it with my budgie) but I think it is important.
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Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Michael » Fri Feb 01, 2013 2:36 pm

I have heard of as many clipped parrots getting lost as flighted ones. Granted, there are more clipped birds but people who clip are also tend to be more complacent. Owners of flighted parrots are forced to take precautions.
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Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Nir » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:51 pm

Michael wrote:I have heard of as many clipped parrots getting lost as flighted ones. Granted, there are more clipped birds but people who clip are also tend to be more complacent. Owners of flighted parrots are forced to take precautions.



the fault here isnt flight vs flighted but more so of not so good owners vs good owners. You should always be cautious regardless of flighted or not.
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Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Polarn » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:05 am

Karma wrote:It is harder to allow the macaw to be fully flighted because of the limited room. We got her from a local pet store (very small store who takes very good care of their pets for sale) and she was clipped.


Now this in my oppinion is two statement in one, I mean for me there is impossible to claim that someone that clips birds takes "very good care" of their pets... I'd say they may care for them or care about them but to me this is equivalent to a petstore selling puppies that gets their hindlegs tied together to prevent them jumping out of the enclosure, now you wouldn't ever claim that a store were taking "wery good care" of puppies if they tied their hind legs together would ya? And by tying the legs together I would consider that less cruel than clipping the wings, since tied legs can be untied immidietly someone buys the puppy and they can start building muscles to use them properly... while the clipped wings may take months before replaced and flighttraining can begin properly... Now I only bring this up because I feel sorry for all the clipped birds and quite honestly for everyone living somewhere where clipping vs flight is such a big discussion (because so many goes by the clipping option). The only way honestly to prevent young birds to be clipped isn't really asking for your chick not to be clipped, since that only prevents that particular bird from getting mutilated, but the solution is to only deal with stores/breeders who always allow free flight of their birds. A store over here keeping all birds clipped would probably loose every single birdowner/interested as a client no matter it be on the actual birds or toys for their excisting etcetera. most of us wouldnt set out foot inside that store.

And the debate about the bird being lost or not and weather clipping prevents it if they get outside etcetera shouldnt be such a big part of the discussion, these things (bird trained or not) is down to human error, laziness, lack of will to make changes in their house etcetera etcetera. Seriously if you live in a house for example the cost isnt that great to make screens for the windown and make it so that you ave to go through two doors to go outside, I mean if your inbetween your two doors and the bird is with you there... open the door back inside rather than the door leading outside...
What should matter and be debated if its even gonna be a choice to clip is the birds mental and physical health, there are harnesses for going outside so you do not need to clip it to go outside in a safe manner... And the bird should not be punnished due to human errors and laziness, but the human should be willing to work on these things to prevent it. if there are no window the bird can simply fly out of... thats not an argument, if you can not secure the window with a screen or bars to be able to have the window open safetly... then don't open a window... simple as that.
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Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby pennyandrocky » Sun Feb 03, 2013 7:05 am

i would love to add a :macaw: to my home but my house is too small to allow full flight so i can't have one. if i can't give a bird everything it deserves to be happy and healthy i don't bring it home.
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Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Andromeda » Sun Feb 03, 2013 8:17 pm

Polarn wrote:A store over here keeping all birds clipped would probably loose every single birdowner/interested as a client no matter it be on the actual birds or toys for their excisting etcetera. most of us wouldnt set out foot inside that store.


This is so interesting to me and I wish people in the United States felt this way about clipping. Pet stores and breeders over here almost exclusively clip their birds and it makes me sick.

It's nice to know that things are different in Sweden. I hope that one day keeping a flighted bird in the U.S. will be less of a "controversial" idea and that people over here will start boycotting stores and breeders that clip because that would pretty much force them to change. I look forward to the day when the idea of keeping a clipped bird is widely considered socially unacceptable, cruel, and inhumane.

I wish vets here in the U.S. would encourage owners to keep their birds flighted. There are two different avian vets my birds see and whenever I take my GCC in for a nail trim they always see his flight feathers and say, "Just the nails?" I mean they've never outright stated that I should clip my birds but they always double-check that I don't want the wings trimmed, too, and it just kind of upsets me that they are apparently so used to clipping birds in their practice that they even ask me that question in the first place.
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Re: Clipped vs. Flighted

Postby Michael » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:57 pm

Actually it's good they double check. Some are so keen on clipping they'd do it if you didn't manage to stop them in time!
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