question regarding trainning to fetch

[amia]

Hi Guys,
I just came across your site and found it very interesting.
I am new to parrots training and hope I can use your experience.

My cockatiel learned pretty fast (1-2 session to understand and additional 2 to rehearse and do with only voice or manual sign) the targeting and the turn tricks.
When I tried the fetch according to Michael's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoBZ2IGrCbs tutorial I ran into the following difficulty: My cockatiel picks-up the object and drops it but does not seem to understand that he should drop it into the box. I am only rewarding him for the successful attempt and for five sessions the status is pretty much the same. I tried also demonstrating to him what to do (my daughters enjoy the training and are assisting - so they performed the action and I praised them) and I tried to direct him to the box, etc. However, he pretty much picks and drops it wherever he wants.
In Michael's vid there seem to be a point where the parrot make this connection (and is not showed there how) and I was wondering how to make him see the connection. Simply continue what I do or do you have other tips? Maybe this is too difficult trick for this stage?
He seems to be motivated and alert during the training since he performs his turn and target easily.

Sorry for the long description and thanks for any assistance

[idlepirate]

Try using a wide enough container/box to start with so that there's less chance for him to drop it. What helped me is also keeping the container/box quite close to to bird first and then gradually moving further and further away.
Theres techniques where if you're clicker training you should start by rewarding and cicking even when the bird touches the containiner/box with the object hes fetching. that way he can start getting the connection that the trick involves the container- not only dropping. Fetch trick isn't that complicated but it can take more time then tricks like the turn around or wave because it involves a prop. As with any trick it some birds pick it up faster then others and you just need to keep practicing everyday- then one day he/she will just get it which is the best feeling

Sounds like your bird is holding the item ok and just dropping it away from the glass so you're half way there:)
Good luck!

[amia]

Hi, idlepirate. Thanks for your reply.
I am using a wide box and if it is below it will fall into it. However, if it not, it will end up not inside the box.
At first I used a coin and since it is heavier and slippery I replaced it with something lighter and easier to hold so I am more convinced it is not just slipping before he can move it to the box. I am using a clicker to indicate it is good only when it falls into the box (which is more my doing by putting it below) but the problem is that it is about the same behavior for quite a few sessions with no progress and I am not sure how I can make him understand this is a multi-stage trick. Is what you are suggesting is basically to keep on the same stuff? Any other ideas?
Thanks

[Michael]

It took about a month to teach fetch to a budgie. If a budgie can learn it, so a can any parrot. Just going to require a bit of patience. It may take a thousand time of dropping it in and getting treat, thousand times of missing and not getting treat, but eventually it will just click that it must be in. That's when you start moving the box away. If you are holding the box immediately under and getting a success rate of 100%, I suggest moving the box away and letting it fail on occasion so it can learn that only getting it into the box earns treats. A good rule of thumb in parrot training is to allow a 1 in 5 failure rate. So reward the 4 best and ignore the worst in 5. You want the parrot to have a high opportunity of success but without failing, it will not learn what to do.

[amia]

Thanks Michael.
Acctually I wanted to update you that the same day I posted the question, the session went very well and he figured out what to do to the delight of my girls.
We'll practice this for a couple of sessions and try a new trick. I thought of trying wave before the fetch but he managed to grab my finger faster than I could pull it back (he ignores it if the finger is not close enough). I was worried I will lose his trust after pulling back with my finger with him with it so I did not continue with it. Any tips how to do it properly?
If not I'll probably try some other trick next.

[Michael]

Once again, budgie learned to wave, took a whole month of patience. These tricks are easier for big parrots but harder for smaller ones.

[amia]

My concern in wave was not that he will take time to get it but more that he will lose trust since I am moving my finger and he is grabbing it during that and losses balance.
Is what you are saying that small parrots are harder to train or that there are tricks that are easier to teach for smaller parrots (if so could you please name a few)?

[Michael]

Wave and fetch are definitely possible. While they are easy tricks for larger parrots, they are actually very difficult tricks for the little ones (budgies, cockatiels, lovebirds) because they are small and not used to lifting their legs as high.

Easier tricks include targeting, turn around, go through tube, and flight recall. Surprisingly I've found that a budgie learned to turn around and go through tube quicker than my larger parrots.

[amia]

We are allready doing target, turn, and fetch, and started working on tunnel (toilet paper roll is too small for him - we use cola bottle). His wings are clipped so naturally we can not do flight recall. We are also doing "chess mess" which I am not sure can be considered a trick but when I put him near a set chess board he will take pieces and move them around out of the board while I'm bringing back the previous piece he threw-out he will continue to throw another. My daughters can't stop laughing from this (it happened at the first time by accident during a chess-game and he enjoyed this).

Anyways, what are other first (or second) levels tricks according to your experience in small birds training?

Additionaly, I wanted to personaly thank you for all your instruction videos ("how to train..."). It was very helpful and thank you for taking the time to do that.

[Kathleen]

Some other tricks that can be taught to smaller birds which I don't think have been mentioned on this topic are the bat, play dead, roll over, jump through a small metal hoop, go down a slide, climb a rope, ring a bell, give pretend "kisses" (don't actually let your bird contact your mouth/your saliva), lift up and spread its wings/"eagle", climb around a perch (do a flip while on a perch), somersault, shake its head (difficult but still possible), nod its head up and down, shake your finger (with its foot). These are some that have already been done or I think could be possible.

If you find a prop that is suitably sized, modify some kind of object or make your own props, you can come up with even more tricks, but obviously you have to consider the toxicity of certain things.

If your bird vocalizes at all, you can turn desired vocalizations into a "trick" as well by clicking and rewarding and putting those on a cue.