What is really going on when I say "no"?

[KC Cameron]

I use "No" in trick training to let my parrots know there will be no reward for their behaviour, and possibly a negative (being returned to their cage). Returning to the cage is not a negative for some birds, but it is for mine.

The "No" in a deep stern voice causes them to pause. Sometimes they stop, sometimes not but they know I will always intervene in some way if they continue - and they won't get a treat.

I think a person's understanding of a parrot and their relationship with that bird determines what happens.

Still, distraction and prevention are your best allies!

[Michael]

I use "No" in trick training to let my parrots know there will be no reward for their behaviour, and possibly a negative (being returned to their cage). Returning to the cage is not a negative for some birds, but it is for mine.!

Its not a good idea to maintain going back too the cage as punishment or to use it as such. Its a likely way to teach the bird to bite or fly away. I never use the cage as an aversive nor as punishment. Instead i treat it as good and safe/calm. So if the birds are too wound up they can end up in the cage to chill but not as punishment.

[KC Cameron]

Michael,

Perhaps I expressed it poorly.

*L* no my birds don't resist, nor will they fly away. While I am sure it happens, my cages are large and toy filled. They nearly always prefer to be with me, but it isn't punishment any more than withholding a treat when they don't perform as asked. I don't act like it is a punishment, but just what happens when they are through training.

I remember as a child, if we kids got too rambunctious in the house, mom would tell us we had to play outside for the rest of the day. It wasn't punishment, it was cause and effect. We loved playing outside anyway, and the only issue was the water from the hose tasted nasty.

I remember my dad "punishing" me by sending me into my room. For me, it WASN'T punishment. I had books and toys to occupy myself. . . little did he know how it did not faze me.

I have NEVER had any problem getting a bird back to a cage. They will ALWAYS return, just when I return them is in question. Occasionally they will communicate their desire to stay in their cages, but they will come out if I insist, although I usually respect their wishes.

As for biting - well no, not in my case!


I appreciate your forum, your postings, and your show. You have really developed Kili. . . You have had five years, five GOOD years of experience, and you are a huge help to the parrot community, but still you can't be an authority on all things parrot with just five years experience - even when they have been five great years like yours.

Every species is different, every individual within the species varies. Every relationship between parrot and human is different - and generally not good. There are far too many factors to make an absolute statement like yours. Yes, in many cases it is true, especially with new bird owners. In my relationship with my GW and U2 it is most definitely NOT the case.

We, as a community, understand so little of parrots, I'm not sure anyone can claim to be an "expert". When the majority of our experience is with a handful of birds (which is nearly all of us). We can relate our experiences, not absolutes. To truly understand parrots, we need to understand the spectrum. Kili is a great trick trained bird. You have had Truman for 3 years, but Truman is no Kili. Think how different a Macaw or 'too is from a Senegal and Cape . . .


Just like raising kids, what works for one does not necessarily work for another. Raising one star child does not mean the next will not be a delinquent. Raising a couple kids, even if they turn out great, does not make one an expert on children - just knowledgable on your own children.

[Dbeguy]

"No

My logic is that by using the word "no" then rewarding the break in behaviour with positive attention may mean the bird associates the word no with a positive ending. Basically click and treat.
Bird repeats behaviour to get the bridge (the no or click) where it then stops the behaviour to recieve its reward. It wont understand that the no is different to the click if there is a positive experience immediately after both so it may encourage it to misbehave more to get the final outcome, it will link behaviour= "no"= good experience.

That is a very valid concern Marie, but I could imagine there's a possible alternative. if "No" or "Stop" is going to be thought of as positive. Teach it as a positive. Some parrots are natural dancers. Have them dance and stay stop & turn off the music. Reward the pause. make "No" a game! and if there's a genuine time that you need them to stop then easily switch it to your standard activity for the "No" Game.

[DogTrainer]

A good alternative to using "no" as a no reward marker/stop or interrupt behavior is to use a well understood cue.

If the bird is running down your arm to the sink, as in the original post, instead of using "no" cue step up, recall, or fly to the cage. This does require that cue to be very, very strong, and you need to have generalized the cue (ie a bird that knows to fly to your hand from one perch might not understand that he can also fly to your hand from your arm, unless you've worked on generalizing the cue)

[Graeme]

Well I tend to think they know exactly what we mean, they are very intelligent and I don't think they get confused at all. They are able to see and understand a lot more, than we give them credit for, things like the tone of voice, facial expressions and body language all help them understand
what it is we want them to do.

Bailey, our 14 week old Sun Conure has a tendency to get a little carried away when nibbling and can bite down a little too hard, a firm "gentle" and he eases off. It is the same when we are playing, he gets carried away and a firm "gentle" sees him ease off.
He also likes jewelry and in particular my watch and ring, he used to always make a bee line for it. But he knows now when I say "no" he is to leave it alone, sometimes this works and sometimes it doesn't, but he is getting there.

[KimberlyAnn]

I don't know what's really going on, but if I say "No" or "Leave it" Emmi will pause nine times out of ten. The other 1/10th? That always involves my cell phone and she runs faster towards it when she hears "No." Lol

Then there is the sometimes slow creep back towards the "No" thing while making that rolling tweet sound of "WOW!" Too bad, it gives her away every time!

I do see a benefit to using "No" since I get the reaction I want. A pause enough to take the danger or forbidden object away. Most of the time she will walk away though so that's also a good reaction. It just depends on how shiny it is to her.