Your views on clipping wings?

[LadySaphine]

I'm kinda lost in these walls of text, but I would like to make some points.

To Mr. Dodes151- I see you are a falconer. And I also see you clip your bird's wings. I didn't read why the reason, though. I'm aware you may keep your hawk in the mews, away from your parrots, but what would happen to your birds if your red tail got loose in the house? I own cats and dogs, and Peanut's life could depend on her flight. I'm not trying to argue with you here- before I owned any birds I aspired to be a falconer, and I have respect for them. But so far you have come across as rude, and I understand that what people have been saying you disagree with. But please at least try to be nicer with your words. Also, would you clip your hawk's wings? Would you break a hunting dog's leg?

I would just like to say that Peanut loves to fly. She'll fly to the person she wants to be with most, which I think is great. She can make her own decisions, and we don't have to force her to spend time with us if she doesn't want to (she does, of course). Parrots are sentient creatures, and we should treat them as such. From the most wild, un-tame budgie to hyacinth macaws they've proven how intelligent they are. So why would you limit their flight? I don't see people clipping canaries' or finches' wings.

Also, how would your parrot get exercise? Climbing around isn't exactly much, nor is it stimulating for the bird. Toys, maybe, or some training but it comes nothing close to flight.

And last but not least, I think Peanut's flight feathers make her beautiful. They're this gorgeous turquoise color, and all together it makes her a rainbow. When I saw her at the pet store- I thought 'What a beautiful bird', but she was clipped, and I never saw the primaries until May (I got her in last November).

I don't care whether you clip or not, but IMO, clipping is the way to go. But, do what you want, I just think your bird will not be as happy as it should.

[Pajarita]

Clipping is, most of all, not kind to the poor bird, if you ask me, but it also brings physical and emotional problems.

Physical is damage to respiratory system (semi-atrophied air sacs and predisposition to respiratory infections) and lack of exercise (obesity, cardio-vascular problems -even sleep and appetite are affected).

The emotional damage is due to stress. Most parrots are prey to other animals and their protection is flight and flock. If we deprive them of both, the animal will be stressed out. You can't change hundreds of thousands of years in evolution in a few generations - especially when no breeder is actually breeding to domesticate the species!

The phrase "I clip for the bird's safety" is true - but it's also the shortened version of the reason. The full version reads: "I clip for the bird's safety because I am unwilling to change my home and lifestyle to accommodate a flighted bird"

[jane19]

So going back to the original question: will the bird be able to fly when the feathers grow back?

Yes, provided that it was properly fledged. Then you can clip all you like whenever it conveniences you, not the bird, but then parrot keeping is not about the birds convenience anyway (if you want to really help a bird you should become a falconer). If the bird did not learn to fly at fledging age and later on you changed your mind, it could take months or even years for it to gain some confidence to fly. That is a lot of work. Older birds also can't take a fall the same way the youngsters do.

Personally, I would like flyers. It conveniences me to have very skilled flyers around, ones that don't need much supervision in the house, ones that know when they can or cannot fly through a closing door (they actually do it for fun and wait for the moment to have a go, the bigger reaction they get from a frightened human the better), or even ones that come out of the house to walk with me. I think living with birds is a lifestyle choice, so as getting a skilled flier or a flight-retarded bird. Make your choice and deal with the consequences.

[Kayleigh89]

Clipping or not to clip?

Wow, there is a lot of knowledge circulating on this forum. It is quite impressive.

It seems to me, after reading the massive walls of texts in this thread, that the answer is quite obvious. The decision to clip or not to clip is purely situational. Both sides of the argument seem to be the same, and are based on genuine concern for the birds. My bird came to me clipped, but even if he hadn't I would have asked the vet to clip him. Why? For his safety and for the safety of the other residents that live in the same house. A bird capable of flight in my house right now would result in a dangerous and chaotic situation. The cats would notice him, as of right now they have not identified him as 'prey'. My parents would likely freak out and flail, scream, etc. Which could hurt themselves and the bird. The dogs would also give chase, bark and try to get the bird. Okay, one of the dogs would, my little Pomeranian would more likely run into his crate, terrified. My 6 year old son would also freak out. So, to avoid a situation that would cause fear to all involved and possible injuries to various parties...yes, my bird is clipped. Will he always stay clipped? I hope not.
I also agree that for beginners, clipping can be a good thing. I can't handle a flighted bird, but with time and learning that will probably change. Beginners are just not ready for flighted birds, most often. It takes time to learn, but as long as people keep an open mind and do the best they can to care for their pets, then I see no problem.

[RachelLynn]

I also agree that for beginners, clipping can be a good thing. I can't handle a flighted bird, but with time and learning that will probably change. Beginners are just not ready for flighted birds, most often.

I seems you are open-minded about flight; however, I have to disagree with you on several points. First of all, if your family is terrified of your bird, flighted or not, then a parrot may not be the best animal to have living with you, and this is not even in consideration of the number of predators in your home. You say that the predatory mammals living with you don't notice your bird because of the lack of flight. Yes, fluttering wings can trigger a prey response; however, parrots tend to flap their wings, regardless if they are flighted or not. If your dogs or cats possess so much prey drive that they can not be around a bird doing what it was born to do (flight), then bringing a parrot into your home was not a wise choice. A flighted bird in the house is much safer than a bird who has no means of escape other than futility attempting to scurry away.

You may be a "beginner" at sharing your home with a bird; however, you bird is not a "beginner" at being a bird. He or she was born a bird. How can you justify taking away a certain number of years of the bird's life that it could have spent flighted, other than the fact that you are getting past some learning curve? Do not purchase an animal if you are not prepared to deal with the whole animal, whether that encompasses behavior or physical abilities, such as running fast or climbing walls. It is the responsibility of all bird owners to study the behavior of the species they will be sharing their home with, and that includes flight behavior. As a bird is biologically built to fly, it is unwise for "beginners" to buy a bird thinking they can simply stunt the musculature development, coordination, and confidence that is created by flight, until the beginner humans can "catch up" in some way.

Finally, there are a lot of things that are unnatural about living in captivity. It could be argued that wing-clipping is simply one of those things. However, I believe it is our responsibility to create an environment that is as accommodating to the parrot as possible. Flight is not a privilege to be taken away because we believe it might be safer, as flight can both endanger and save our birds. It is our responsibility to create an environment where flight is not only safe, but where flight contributes to safety, rather than taking it away.

I may not have been biologically born to drive, however; my vehicle gives me unparalleled freedom to go where I want and to do as I please. Yet, driving is the most dangerous thing most people will ever do. Odds are you will be involved in a serious accident as least once in your life. Will you stop driving because it is dangerous? Will stop strapping your kids in a car seat in order to bring them to daycare? After all, anything could happen in the blink of an eye on the road. Being responsible means tilting the odds in our favor by practicing safety measures every time we get in the car. So too should we practice safety measures every single day with our flighted birds. There is no reason why "beginners" can not incorporate safety rules into their routines, whether they are just beginning to drive or just beginning to share their home with a bird.

[Pajarita]

There are a lot of misconceptions going around and been repeated over and over in birdsites... For one thing, clipping does physical and emotional harm. There is no doubt about this. Just because we make an undomesticated species a pet doesn't mean that they automatically stop having the same physical and emotional needs of their wild counterparts. The point is birds NEED to fly to be both physically and emotionally healthy. Period. Clipping versus keeping flighted is only a personal choice because birds are property without rights of their own and the owner can decide what to do to the point that every owner is within their legal right to kill his/her bird just because.

Flight IS the only mode of transportation for birds. It's how they go from point A to point B. They don't walk from point A to point B, they fly. They do climb because they are mostly canopy birds and they cannot fly within the canopy but, if there is a choice, they would always fly instead of walking. And preventing them from flying has consequences. There are studies that show that birds that climb up a hill flapping their wings utilize their muscles less than 10% compared to horizontal flight without wind (the easiest flight there is). There are studies that show that they can only bellow the anterior pair of air sacs properly when they fly and at no other point in time or through no other exercise. There are studies that show that baby chicks born under stressful conditions due to the nearby presence of predators grow their wings faster and longer than chicks without it (and this is not evolution which takes generations and generations, this in one single clutch!). There are studies that show that muscle deterioration is already present after 40 days of keeping them from flying (and these are adult birds who were fully flighted prior the study - imagine how devastating the damage would be if the muscles are never allowed to develop in the first place!) And I can go on and on and on - and this is not people posting in birdsites, these are scientific studies.

A bird was meant to fly and a breeder who doesn't have a buffer zone in her aviary is an idiot and a real bad business person. I am not a breeder and I have buffer zones in both the front and the back entrance to my house so I would not lose a single one of my flighted birds - and after 21 years and counting I still haven't lost one. Furthermore, a breeder who doesn't allow a baby chick to fledge properly before clipping is not a good business person (why risk losing any?) and she y either doesn't have enough knowledge about bird physiology or simply doesn't care about her chicks wellbeing. I don't mean to be harsh but, if you think about it, there isn't any other explanation - you don't handicap a developing baby risking muscle atrophy. Because contrary to people will say, you do atrophy not only their muscles but also their tendons when they never learn to fly (I recently took in a 20 year old LSC that was never allowed to fledge and he can't even open his wings fully) So, shame on this breeder!

I've been keeping flighted birds all my life (around 240 when I had the rescue) and I haven't had a single one get hurt from flying. Wild birds don't know about windows but pet ones learn pretty fast and, smart as they are, they never hit them once they figure it out.

And they can start plucking and even mutilating when they get a bad clip and I know because I took in a tiel which chewed up his wings so badly that he no longer has any remige follicles because of his owners clipping his wings too short.

And clipped birds can take off in a gust of wind or with a surge of adrenaline but they will eventually come down and become sitting ducks for predators because uplift is VERY hard for them and that's why it's more dangerous to lose a clipped one (and they do get lost) than a flighted one.

[deepakeapen]

I had clipped my birds' wings when I got them, hoping to tame them, but unfortunately that did not happen, though they are somewhat tamed now by seeing me everyday for 6 months. Now one of the birds have grown back it's flight feathers but it doesn't want to fly at all(or still thinks that it is not fully fledged) instead it moves from one perch to the other with the help of the wire mesh. How do I make it fly again, do you guys have any tips?. I am eagerly waiting to see it flying around in the cage. I did a blunder by clipping their wings.

Thanks,
Deepak.

[KimberlyAnn]

This is kinda old, but if someone happens to come across it, I just want to add one point.

I studied brain development in children in college. I'm an early childhood education major and a preschool teacher. Movement is so important for a child's brain development. It affects not only movement and balance, but reasoning too among other things. It makes me sad that so many parks are taking out swings because they are "too dangerous." Children need to feel dizzy and the pull of gravity to help their brain make those much needed connections. If you see how children play, you know what I'm talking about. They run, jump, hang up-side-down, and spin. No one teaches them these things. They will do it on their own, naturally. Mentally, it's been proven that children who are allowed to do these things as much as they need to, reason better. They are quicker in thought and understand concepts better. Do a search. There is a lot on the subject that will explain in more depth then my memory at almost midnight. Lol

I do not know how close a bird's brain is to our own. I can't imagine it would be that much different when it comes to this. Birds fly and when they do, they don't always go in straight lines. They circle, loop, and dive. I can only assume that it helps them in the same ways. Anytime a being that can learn something, you can bet that their brain is making connections.

My own bird is clipped sadly. I got her from a friend of my step daughter's that brought her home without asking their parents. She came clipped, but I could not say no to her. We needed her in our life as much as she needs us. We work with her every day, helping her to learn to fly with clipped wings. I can't wait for her to really fly when she gets her flight feathers in. They are taking forever! She can now fly about 20 feet in a downward flapping. Lol She can fly about 10 around a corner. I feel it's very important for her to learn now so she have that movement at a very important time in her life...when she's young.

Also remember, it takes humans a lot longer to develope physically then birds. It takes us years, into our teens! Birds? About 2 from what I read. Once my bird gets her flight feathers, she will be one and a half to two years old. She will miss a lot of that important stage of development. Just something to think about.

I will love Emmi no matter what. I'm not going to be sad for her. She's recently learned that she wants to walk on the floor to places she can fly to. I can tell she gets frustrated at times, but she will learn to fly eventually and I'm ready.

[gerewolf]

My Timneh African Grey flew out of my car today and is gone. It is a snowy day in Bushkill, PA and we sludged through the snow for an hour, calling him. He had never done anything like this before. He molted a few months ago and then learned to fly. He was flying all around the house. We had been used to taking him along in the car, carrying him out on our fingers. But now he is gone, and my views on clipping are very mixed. I agree that clipping may do emotional damage, but it also gives them the ability to fly off. It's kind of a trade-off.
I suppose I should have learned to be more careful, only take him outside in a travel cage, etc. Anyway, at this moment I'm heartbroken, and I wanted to put in my 2 cents.

[GlassOnion]

My Timneh African Grey flew out of my car today and is gone. It is a snowy day in Bushkill, PA and we sludged through the snow for an hour, calling him. He had never done anything like this before. He molted a few months ago and then learned to fly. He was flying all around the house. We had been used to taking him along in the car, carrying him out on our fingers. But now he is gone, and my views on clipping are very mixed. I agree that clipping may do emotional damage, but it also gives them the ability to fly off. It's kind of a trade-off.
I suppose I should have learned to be more careful, only take him outside in a travel cage, etc. Anyway, at this moment I'm heartbroken, and I wanted to put in my 2 cents.

Wow.. I'm so sorry for your Grey. I have NO idea why you thought it would be a good idea to bring outside a flighted bird in the freezing snow, and giving him the opportunity to fly off. If you knew he was flying inside the house and is not recall trained, why bring him outside unrestrained? This has more to do with basic, common sense and your setup for failure, rather than your Grey's ability to fly.