Spouse issues.

[Hawksflight12]

Hello,
I've been in a head-to-head argument with my husband for awhile now since I mentioned getting another parrot. I want to get a Senegal because of it's smaller size and I'm partial to the African parrots (I had a Timneh African Grey that passed two years ago). My husband is not a bird person. Never has been and after five years, it seems he never will be. Anyway, I've shared my sentiments with him about getting a new parrot because I've always had a parrot in my life and my life feels not complete without one. We have a 20 month-old daughter, who has not been around parrots yet. My husband tells me that I can get another bird if it is small enough to be a cage that will hang from the ceiling. He is adamant that if our daughter can reach the cage, then I will be putting our daughter into harm's way. He is sure that she'll lose a finger or some such. I've told him that a Senegal is too big to hang from the ceiling and that she/he will need to be in a cage on the floor. He is now telling me that he does not want me to get another parrot. He didn't like my African Grey that I had WAY before I had even met him. We fought about my parrot constantly. I told him that I've always had parrots, and he doesn't seem to care. When Cinder passed, he told me that it was just a bird and that I needed to 'get over it'. This had almost led to a divorce. I've told him straight out that our daughter will have to learn to be around parrots at some point, and by keeping her from them, it will only prolong her not being around them while young. Although this information might be a little too much for you guys, I really would like some input. I know at least some of you might have been, or are, in the position that I find myself in right now. Thank you!

[KimberlyAnn]

This is an interesting question and I totally can empathize with you, deeply in my heart. I've had to make sacrifices with my husband. I'm a cat person. I miss having a cat and will greet every cat I see while out. But I just had to make a very hard choice...cats or my husband. I chose my husband. But I am very very happy with our bird. But as soon as the bird dies, and the husband dies, guess what I'm getting? Morbid, I know, but it's true...if things happen that way.

Yes, he should be understanding that you are grieving your bird and let you grieve without comment. I grieve for my cat and it's been five years. But maybe he just does not get it...and that's ok. He does not have to. I would give a dog love and connect with them if they were my own, but I don't like other people's dogs. Especially if they jump and lick...no thanks. I would not appriciate having to live with a dog that jumped and licked me all the time...again, I would let a cat do that!

Now the heavy part...to get a parrot or not. This is just my opinion, I would choose love. If you are not in an abusive relationship, choose love. Maybe he feels second best to your love of birds and that causes the strife? Is this the reason for his comments when your bird passed? It was not a nice or supportive thing to say and I would be so upset over that! But I wonder if he feels like he's not as important and that's what makes him dislike parrots? My husband loves our parrot, but we have had words over time not spent together because I get super focused on Emmi. I've tried hard to keep that balance.

You married him for a reason and you created a child together. If a bird is grounds for an almost divorce...that's scary. I'm the stepmom in my marriage, I could tell you the horror stories of my husband's ex and the men she chooses to be with. That's the scariest part to me. If you seperate because you want a bird that your husband does not, you lose the right of who enters your child's life. And you lose the person you love, to another...or many others.

I wish I could tell you to just get the parrot you want and bring it home...but that's just not good for a marriage. It's not fair to the parrot to live around someone who resents it, and it's not fair to the person who thinks having a parrot is a miserable life. It sounds like your husband did try and it just didn't work out.

But I deeply sympathize with you. It's not easy. I'm glad he's compromising with a hanging cage. Maybe he is understanding of your need to have a parrot in your life to make such a compromise, even if he would never want a parrot. What about building a shelf for the cage and getting a Green Cheek or Teil? I promise, you won't be disappointed with the green cheek! They don't require as big of cages, but I wonder about how much the bird will be out? Short of that, maybe he didn't like the Grey and you could introduce him more to the parrot you want? But it sounds like his mind is made up. Take the compromise so you both can be happy and stay together.

Also, I'm sorry about your grey. So few people understand the bond between a parrot and their person. We are the lucky few.

[Wolf]

It appears to me that the objection to getting another parrot is out of concern for the safety of your daughter. He is not a bird person and is acutely aware that parrots bite. You should be understanding of this. Is it possible that you are less empathic to his reasoning because of his thoughtless and callus remarks when you lost your friend?

Now it is not fair that he wants to limit you to a cage that hangs, but don't fret too much about it as there are possible alternatives to this situation.
The first one that comes to mind is to put animal screening around the cage so that little fingers can't find their way into the cage or bird's beak. It is not very expensive ond if you can sew just a little you can cut and size it with scissors and attach it with hook and loop tape ( Velcro ).
The second alternative is to hang your cage. As long as the screw hooks or screw eyes are embedded into solid wood ( ceiling joists or wall studs ) you can hang any cage that you can find regardless of its size.

So you see there are options, you just need to think and be a little bit creative ,both in finding the best solution and then in presenting the solution to your husband.

Don't argue with him about this, it's not worth the stress or the repercussions. A marriage must be based on trust and mutual respect for each other especially when you don't agree on something. It is a commitment that thrive on cooperation and without it will fail. You expect him to listen to you and your objections to many different things so give the same respect and cooperation to him. But don't give up on the things that are close to your heart, instead accept his viewpoints as valid and find the solution to the problem. Hell, Get him involved in the solution, after all he married you so he should want you to be happy. Explain to him how much this means to you and offer him the solutions given above and ask him to help you find a solution that will satisfy his concerns as well as your needs.

Just my opinion.

[Harpmaker]

I am mostly with your husband on this one. Any bird will bite. A budgie or a cockatiel is unlikely to bite hard enough to cause permanent damage. A larger bird can cause trips to the emergency room-(and likely a justified ultimatum from your husband).

Also, kids get into everything. A hanging cage will help keep birds out of reach of curious but irresponsible fingers(they have to drag up a chair, so you have more time to stop them). There are stories on the web of birds being lost because a toddler was showing off to the neighbors. Don't lose your fids this way!

When my kids were small I kept budgies in a cage hung from a planter hanger. Budgies can talk, do tricks, hang upside-down from your glasses, and be all-around great birds.

It is true that Aviator does not make a harness that small, and that larger birds have a better grasp of what they just said, but in your situation, I would get a small bird for the sake of the bird and the child.

[Pajarita]

LOL - My husband dislikes my parrots INTENSELY. He finds nothing to like about them and fears them to the point that he has a hoodie hanging by the front door and would don it (with the hood up!) whenever I take my Senegal hen out of her cage (she is the only one that lives in a cage). But I had multiple dogs, cats and birds by the time he met me (I am his third wife and he's my third husband) and I made it VERY clear that this was the way it was going to be. Period. The man loves me to pieces and even takes care of all my animals whenever I can't (VERY seldom but it happens). He has come to adore the dogs, the canaries and he finches and he always liked cats so the only ones that are a bone of contention with us are the parrots (I also have a mouse I rescued and he has even learned to like her -LOL) but, you know what? it took years (we will be married 25 years next year) but now, he even spends time with a TAG that adores him. He doesn't do much, just sits down on the stairs next to the birdroom door, with the hoodie on and plays on his phone while she perches on his shoulder so there is really no interaction between them but Pookey seems happy just to rub her face on his and coo in his ear I am happy she is happy so we are all OK with that. Lately, he has even begun saying that she is OK and the only parrot he trusts not to bite him!

Now, my advice is not to argue about it. I have found that trying to convince a man through arguing is absolutely useless. My husband is a very kind man so I get to him through his heart and that's how I got him to spend some time with Pookey. "Oh, she loves you soooo much, poor thing! All she wants is to be with you and you NEVER spend any time with her... See, Pookey? You chose the wrong human, you should have chosen me, not him. He is mean and doesn't love you..." that sort of thing. Manipulative you say? You bet! -LOL- but I would do that and more to make my birds happy!

Now, as to your problem, first of all, no cages hanging from the ceiling. They are not good for birds, same as round-shaped ones. Cages should have sides and be firmly placed on the floor or a table or some place so it doesn't swing or move with any little movement. But you can get a cage that is high up from the floor so the baby cannot reach so that's no problem. Why don't you look around in local rescues for a nice, hand-tamed, bonded pair of cockatiels and bring him over for a visit with them AFTER you make friends with them on your own? You can tell him that they'll require very little interaction so they won't need to come out (just let them out to fly when he is not around) and tiels are not only very quiet when in pairs, they are also the sweetest-tempered of all parrots. None of mine were hand-tamed but none bites either. I can put my hand in their cage, pick them up, put my finger for them to step up and they would do it without a problem even though I never spent any time training them. They are real pretty and smart, too. And, because they are partial ground foragers, they do much better than other larger species without so much fuss about their diet (just give them lots of greens and some cooked grains with finely chopped veggies mixed it and some good quality budgie seed for dinner).

Once you convince him to try the tiels and, after time goes by, he gets used to them and to the idea of having small parrots in the house, you can start 'working' him for a bigger one BUT, personally, I would not go with a Senegal if I had a small child. They tend to be one-person birds and would attack anybody they perceive as competition for the attention of their chosen one.

[Wolf]

I wasn't thinking of a swinging type of hanger for a cage, I was thinking of something rock solid and I did not go into choice of birds but Pajarita is right in that a Senegal ( as much as I love mine ) is probably not a good choice with children in the picture because they are too bitey and their bite hurts worse than my Grey's bite and she is twice the size.

[KimberlyAnn]

Pajarita makes two very good points...

1) In any marriage, wants and lifestyle should be made very clear at the start to see if it's a good match. Babies, pets, places to live...etc. If there are conflicting wants...What are you willing to give up?

2) No one gets anywhere with arguments.

And Wolf makes the other good point...

3) Respect and trust.

Maybe put this on the back burner for now and agree to bring this back up in a few years? A few years can make a lot of difference. In those few years, enjoy your family...get that solid foundation away from divorce talk. I wish you well.

[Hawksflight12]

Thank you for everyone's input. Just a little backround: me and my husband met overseas while we were deployed in Iraq. We were together there for about four months until we came home and immediately moved in with one another. He has a 10 year old kid from a previous marriage, but the mother has custody. We went into the relationship with him knowing that I was 'the bird lady' and that I had a parrot and a couple of small birds waiting for me back home, along with two cats. But he evidently didn't realize how deep my love for my animals actually was. When he realized that my African Grey was, to me, like my child he became extremely jealous of all of my animals saying that I loved them more than I loved him, just because I gave them regular attention and wasn't willing to give them up for him. My TAG died two years later, and I think that he was actually thankful in a way because there wasn't that 'barrier' anymore. We have fought constantly about my animals in the past, way before our daughter. I never wanted kids. It was really difficult for me at first to accept all of the changes when she was born. Me and my husband married not long after we found out I was pregnant. I have waited two years since my TAG died and I haven't gotten another parrot yet because he doesn't want me to. Even before I had gotten pregnant, he still didn't want me to get another one.

When we started our relationship, we were in an entirely different situation. We told one another things about our lives, but didn't know the real 'us' until we came home. And it wasn't all chocolate and roses. We are almost opposite on everything. He grew up in the city isn't a animal lover (he doesn't hate them, but he doesn't like living with them) and I grew up on a farm. I am also a falconer, and he is extremely jealous of my hawk and the time I spend hunting. Sorry to drop all of this on you guys, I know it's kind of personal, but I thought that it should be explained more.

I do think that maybe it isn't such a good idea to get a Senegal from what you guys have explained to me about their attitudes, but I do want to get another bird. I will look into a cockatiel or maybe a Green Cheek or Black cap. I am willing to do this for my daughter.

[KimberlyAnn]

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation. It seems like it goes deeper then the parrot issue. I'm not very big on counseling because I feel two people who want to work things out, can find other ways to do it instead of adding a third person to the mix...but I know it helps some.

I have to be really careful that I don't get sucked into friends, animals, hobbies, or work too much. At times, I don't put my husband first (Or the other way round) for periods of time and our relationship suffers. But when I make the time to put him first...he starts putting me first. This can't happen all the time of course. You have to have your individual lives too.

I don't know what your husband's hobbies are or how much time is spent with what he likes to do...but maybe that's a good start? I hate fishing, but I go and act interested, give him compliments and take my camera with me to occupy my time. I take pictures of him and make a big deal out of showing him and how much I love them...tell him how good he looks. Or even create situations where "I need and value his advice" on how I should take a picture, even if he sucks at it. Lol But I do it to make him feel good and needed. I get it back tenfold. It's as simple as: If I make him feel useful to me and take his advice sometimes instead of always being independent...he feels needed, wanted, and not just the guy I live with. Because I do need him and his advice. His advice is so valuable, especially for the times I don't see the whole picture.

It took me a long time being with the wrong man, to realize this. I did go to counseling on my own for awhile...it was an abusive situation so I needed the tools for when I met the right man. There is so much reading material on this now days, people can seek out what works for them. It does sound like your husband (if he's not abusive) wants to be more important then your animals and that's not a bad thing. If the tables were turned, I bet you and I would be a little upset too. Opposites or not, you can still find common ground if you try, you know?

And I don't mean this to sound like it's only you. I've just learned that change starts with ourselves first. One person can break up the way things are and create a new start. If the other person is constantly unwilling, then you have your answer. But it's very hard to resist positive attention for long.

[Pajarita]

I don't know about other people who have birds but, although my husband has no issues whatsoever with the way I love the dogs, cats or canaries, he is terribly jealous of my parrots. And I do mean TERRIBLY -LOL- He is always complaining about how much time I spend with them, how expensive it is to feed them (they eat organic) and how important their wellbeing is to me ("In this house, it's always 'the birds, the birds, the birds!" "We can't even go anywhere anymore because of the birds!" And don't even get me started on his mumbling when I am with Zoey (female Senegal which lives outside the birdroom). As soon as I come home from work (part time so I am home by 2pm) I take her out of her cage and she spends the rest of the afternoon with me and every single day is "Can't you even wait half an hour before you take her out?!" And, every evening, when night has fallen (I put her back in her cage during sunset so she can eat her dinner) I cover her cage but, before, I put my fingers through the bars and scratch her head, neck and cheeks, tickle her under her wings, etc while, all the time, I tell her how much I love her, what a good girl she is, how pretty, etc. as well as 'Night night, baby' and all the time (about 15 minutes), there is the background mumbling "That bird is spoiled rotten...rotten! It's a BIRD for heaven's sake! That's why she is so mean, because you spoil her, that's why! Sheesh, one would think she is child for all the attention you pay her..." -LOL

Only bird people understand the love one can feel for them, it's useless trying to explain it to non-bird people. But non-bird loving husbands can learn to accept it. At least, mine has. Oh, he mumbles and grumbles and complains but that's all it is. I just laugh-off his comments, agree with him ("That's right, she is spoiled because she is my little princess") or explain (for the umpteenth time!) that parrots need lots of affection and company or they become depressed. But, with us, it has become more a game than an actual disagreement so don't give up and don't worry too much about it. Time has a way of eroding rough edges until people settle into a comfortable routine where, even when you don't agree 100% with the other person, it simply doesn't bother you any longer.