Baby Green Cheeks and Hand Feeding

[RhaewynsMom]

We have three green cheek conures. Two of them are a mated pair and are currently sitting on eggs. Last year, they produced eggs, but they did not hatch and seemed to break some of them. I feel very unsettled about taking the eggs out of the nest and disposing of them. I get it though. Some people have their opinion on it and that's fine--I'm not here to argue that point, but I do have a problem with it.

I have called some breeders although none of them deal specifically with green cheeks. Apparently most of them are shipped from breeders in the southern states. I have been told to leave them with the parents for the first week or so, but keep an eye on them and hand feed as necessary, then start doing it regularly by the second week. This is supposed to help with bonding with their parents? Then I was told by another breeder, to take them away from the parents because they will kill the babies and start hand feeding them around the clock from day one every 2-3 hours. Then another breeder suggested I could let the parents feed them and I could supplement, but to interact with them a lot so they are use to being held. That is as far as feeding goes...

I'm also getting mixed information on things like I should get a professional brooder, I don't need one, I can make one, leave them in the nest with the parents, etc. The parents do seem very loving and nurturing of one another and take very good care of each other and their eggs. They love to cuddle and play. They are nippy but only when Salem (the female) is in laying egg mode. Which I get--I didn't want to be disturbed while giving birth either!

There are six eggs total. 4 of which are darker when you hold them up to the light (very white in color on the outside) and slightly bigger than the other two. The other two look like you can see veins, but the coloring seems off and not as white. These were laid recently so I don't know if they need a bit more time to change in color like the others have.

I have had experience with feeding parakeets, but never green cheeks. We used two plastic containers, towels, a heat lamp, and a heating pad with the parakeets when I was growing up. We would put them in the clean bin, and disinfect the other--so it was easier to keep their space clean and always have a fresh bin ready to move them into. We would heat it up with the heating pad before we moved them so it was nice a warm, and then move them in and set it so half of it was under the heat lamp so they could move in and out as needed. My mom would adjust and check on them--like she could tell by how they were acting if they were too cold or too hot. She could even just feel with her hand and know if the space was the right temperature or not. I don't know if I'm that good, but I do have thermometers!

Does anyone have any advice as I have had a lot of conflicting information? Will the parents really kill the babies? Is this something I need to be worried about and prepared for to remove the eggs as they are hatching?

[RenLynn]

If you have hand fed parakeets, it is pretty much the same. I have bred lovebirds and I let the parents feed the chicks for 2 weeks. but if you have to take them out sooner, then thats that. When the parents feed the chicks for the first days they give the chicks something that keeps them heathy. And I put the chicks in a fish tank and used a heating bulb to keep them warm. And make sure its the right type of bulb you dont want to cook them.

[Wolf]

The information that you received is confusing because of what appears to be conflicting information. All of the information that you were given has its place and it is actually good that you have all of it.
Actually the reason for these differing ways is due to the use of these method themselves in past breeding programs by so many different breeders. You see parrots come into this world pretty much like a blank slate, I mean like they even have to be taught how to eat and drink by the parent birds. When you have two birds that breed and produce young and they were taken from their parents, they will not know how to raise their own young and so with these birds you have to take their young away as soon as they hatch or you may lose them . And because they don't know about raising their young they may accidentally kill them.
In my opinion the best way is to allow the parents to raise their young with you just handling the babies regularly as in daily. But with what we have done to them you may not be able to do it this way. You may have to take either a more active role in raising the young or you may have to do it all. So watch to see what happens when they begin hatching.
The brooder might be nice and cut down on your work but it isn't actually a must have item.
And now for the last thing that I have that might be of use to you. If you are having or have had problems with eggs breaking the I would sprinkle the hens food with some calcium supplement as this is usually a good indicator that she doesn't have enough calcium in her system.
There you have it, all that I have to contribute that I think might help you, so with that I am done. I hope that this helps you some.

[RhaewynsMom]

Thank you both for you advice. It's been quite some time since I handled parakeets with my mom! So I am certainly a little nervous. I do sprinkle the food with a calcium supplement. I find that Salem (the female) hates the hard ones even the flavored ones (cuttle bones or even the pineapple calcium supplement), while Abberus (the male), loves those things. She wasn't big on eggs either so I started holding her and giving her a bit and now she will eat them on her own. I also get these yogurt coated seeds for tricks and stuff that they absolutely love. This year I fed them more calcium rich foods starting in May for the egg laying.

It's crazy that we have screwed up their natural abilities to raise their young. It's kind of creepy about the intervention we impose and how much it hinders a species. Even the things we do to our own. :-/

[RhaewynsMom]

One of the eggs has hatched--though I am not certain of the time. The little one was discovered this morning. Our male tries to feed the baby, but the female stops him and wants him to feed her instead. She was brought up as an egg in an incubator. I think our male was partially left with his parents with hand feeding since he seems to be more experienced. They keep him warm and clean. I decided to use a spoon and that has made me more comfortable since it has been some time since feeding baby birds. A breeder told us they can go no more than six hours as long as they are warm, without a feeding. She said that way we don't exhaust ourselves. At first, I was not sure if I was doing it correctly, but then I saw the little bump at the top of his chest fill up. I'm still not sure how big the crop gets on a baby. It seems to be empty after an hour to two hours, so I feed him when I see it has gone down. I got one head bobbing from him during one of our feeds. Otherwise he has been chirping but it looks like he is swallowing. Then he stops, I pull away and give him a break, then we continue if he wants more. He was already comfortable with me by the second feed. He really moves around a lot! He just seems to have a lot of energy or wants to explore. I'm not sure if this is usual for a green cheek? I did try to put our male with him, but he just wanted to go back to his mate and seemed very confused and a bit upset by the separation. I thought he might feed him if she was out of the way. Hopefully, they will for a couple hours so I can get in a nap. He chirps for a little while after a feeding and I thought he was still hungry, but he doesn't take the food if his crop seems full. Maybe he's happy? It does sound different from his hungry chirp when it's time to eat. I don't want to sleep too long since this is the first night! I know it's a touch and go thing so I shouldn't get my hopes up, but I'm going to hope I am doing everything right at the very least!

[Wolf]

I am not the most experienced at this but I do believe that as a general rule they need to eat every two hours. Pajarita is the best bet on what to do with the little one, at least as far as I am aware of.
Sounds like the male was left with his parents a little longer as he at least knew that the baby needed to be fed, but as he does not seem to know that it still needs to be fed after you intervened, he probably was not co parented.
For now I would just take my time with the baby feeding and be very careful that he doesn't get the food in his airway. Also, I think that you will need to make sure that baby doesn't sleep on its back as there is a danger of aspiration of his food.
oh yeah, I almost forgot while trying to pull out all the information I have gathered, keep baby in a fairly dark environment as his eyes are very sensitive to any light at this stage. I am not sure how long but would wager that Pajarita will know. Hope this helps some.

[RhaewynsMom]

Yeah, he has been hungry every 2-3 hours. If he takes the formula a bit thicker, he goes longer but seems to like a much thinner consistency. I've just been setting my alarm and my toddler will be having lots of playpen time this week, lol. The baby seems good about laying on it's side/tummy and the parents do roll him over if he's on his back, so I just went with that. The only thing is I need the light to see what I am doing. :-/ But he is only out for less than 5 minutes, then back in the box. I take the whole nesting box, scoot the parents out, leave him in till food is ready, take him out, feed him, put him in new bedding container inside of the box, and put the box back in the cage. So far, we have a nice rhythm despite being tired, but it reminds me of breastfeeding my daughter, lol. At least I can drink coffee!

[Wolf]

Perhaps you could use a nite light for enough light to feed him by and maybe the bathroom with the same light during the day. Pajarita is on the forum so she will probably be seeing this soon and have much better advice than I have to offer.

[Pajarita]

Well, you definitely have your work cut out for you but I don't understand why you are feeding the baby. Both father and mother will feed the baby but they usually take turns so her wanting him to feed her is not abnormal. Besides, babies go 6 to 8 hours without feeding after hatching because they have reserves from the egg. The only two reasons for parents not to feed their babies is stress (looking into the nest, handling the babies, cage in a busy area, etc) or lack of soft foods (you are providing them with, at least, two different kinds of fresh, warm, soft food and replacing them twice a day, right?). Didn't your research or mentor tell you this? Because let me tell you that handfeeding from day one is NOT recommended. The formula is never the same as what the parents would give them, the temperature has to be perfect (too hot and you burn the crop and too cold and you end up with sour crop) and parents can feed around the clock whenever the baby needs it while humans cannot no matter how careful and responsible we are about it. And, most importantly, it means no imprinting to his parents, a VERY dangerous psychological problem for parrots as it creates an animal that has no real identity, it's half bird, half human but neither. And there is no 'curing' this. It's a serious problem that will remain with the bird for the rest of his life. Breeders never acknowledge this but then, if they did, they would have to acknowledge other things they do which are not in the bird's best interest.

Unfortunately, you might have, inadvertently and with the best of intentions, done a wrong that you might not be able to fix now. Because parents will reject birds they don't 'perceive' as theirs and taking a newborn constantly out of the nest to feed it would do it. I don't know if you are putting the baby back in the nest after you feed it but the father might end up killing it. Tiels are known for this (it doesn't happen in the wild, only in captivity). I took in a pair with a wounded baby (father had pecked his head) after the father had killed the other two babies that had hatched so this is not something I just read about...

If I were you, I would put that baby in a brooder (which is not something I would recommend unless it was a matter of life and death as incubator babies are usually mal-adjusted adults).

[RhaewynsMom]

Yes, we feed the parents well. They also get a lot of fresh fruits and veggies. I do not know what time the baby hatched, but the mother was not feeding it(little crop was empty but not sure how to tell otherwise) and would interfere when the father tried to do so. I do put the baby back in the nest and they cuddle and preen the baby but that seems to be it. The mother was raised by humans from hatching--no interaction with the parents so I don't know if she knows how and wonder if she is regressing a bit? I was never informed about the yolk thing. Now I know. My mom had us wait before we started feeding the parakeets so they stayed with the parents and were fed by them. Green cheeks just have such big personalities though.

Should I give them a chance to see if their instincts kick in? The male does come out to get me when the baby is hungry (as of the last two feedings). He will go inside the box and roll him over and try to get at the beak. Then the mother starts flapping and gets in the way. The father does the regurgitating motion and tries to kick the mother with his foot to get to the baby. She gets in the way and keeps putting her beak to his like "feed me instead!" Eventually he gives up trying to reach the baby and feeds the mother. The mother makes no attempts to feed the baby. Dysfunctional family I did try to put the baby with the father, but that just seemed to cause all sorts of confusion, so I put them both back right away.

Should I try waiting a bit and see if they try to feed the baby. If so, how long should I wait? So, if the other eggs hatch, just leave them alone? How often should I check to see that they are being fed? This is the part I am not use to dealing with. Feedings are fine and easy as long as I nap in between.