What do you do when your bird bites you?

[Natacha]

Natacha, you put him down, leave, and then come back. Greatgriffin you stay close until she calms down. Is one way better than the other? Or does it just depend on what works well for your bird? My inexperience is embarassing I'd be thankful for any advice.

What I mean by "leave" is that I put them down wherever and then go somewhere else, but it could be in the same room, just not within arms' length.

I can still monitor their behaviour and if it seems like they are ready to cooperate, I ask them to step up. It might be that they aren't entirely ready so I leave them again and try later. But they will not come on me after that unless I come to them and ask them to step up. I make sure I'm the get them to do that before they decide to fly to me.

It might be hard to understand, not the easiest thing to explain...

[Sallynoobasaur]

When Spike bites my boyfriend, me or anyone else, we usually pick him up from where he was, put him on the ground, point at him and say "no" with a very angry voice (but don't yell, it's just so they know) walk away and don't look at him.

Eventually he comes running out to us peeping his little sorries and tickling our feet.
This is what we used when he started getting used to us and liking attention. Now, being an EXTREMELY needy bird, he doesn't bite my boyfriend or I anymore, but he will sometimes bite other people. When this happens we just do the same thing and tell everyone in the room to walk away and not look at him.

[pabeth]

I"m going to try all these. My only tame bird is a parrotlet named Louie, and he started to bite me now. He is still only five months? old. ANyway, he bites my fingers playfully. I just don't know what else to do. Anymore suggestion? He doesn't listen when I say no, I try to ignore him, but unfortuntealy, he take off my skin and loves to chew it. That is his reward! I think he bites me bc he wants me to pet him, but I never pet him right after, but he enjoys to chew the little skin he gets, so he gets a reward for biting anyway. I will try to put him away if he does. Am I supposed to just put him in the cage without talking, or say something? I don't want him to think his cage is punishment area though.... What do you think?

My other bird bites out of fear/agreesson, because he is wild. So I want a different tactice. TO him, putting him back in the cage away from me is the reward. I might just get him a girlfriend to keep him company, since he is so unhappy with me!

[Michael]

Don't say no. "No" is meaningless unless there is an aversive consequence but that will just make your parrot fear you. Make sure you are holding your parrot in a way that reduces likelihood of biting:

How to Hold a Parrot - Step Up and Grab Methods

Use alternative behavior and differential reinforcement to make targeting and stepping up more rewarding than biting/chewing:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=227

[Kim S]

Very interesting topic to kick up again.
I do believe that saying "No" works. It works on dogs, why not on parrots, who are way smarter. They do however need to learn that "No" means something bad, and not every aversive consequence is bad for your relationship.
I do the same as Natacha. If Kika nips a bit too hard (or anything else he is not suppose to do) I tell him "No" and put him down on the table. I let him be on his own for a minute while doing something else and try really really hard nót to look at him in any way and giving him attention that way. Usually he will be calling me and whistle for my attention.
I come back to him and start with whatever we were doing before he bit me. Most of the time he is a very good boy after that. If he is not and bites again I say "No" again, and put him in his naughty-box. This is a see-through plastic tank with a mesh lid. He will have a 5 min time-out in there.
After those 5 min. I take him out again and go back to what we were doing before he bit me.

This only works on parrots that have a really good bond with their owner. They must really like being with you and getting attention from you, since this method builds on taking away that attention. By putting him away on the table or in his time-out box, our attention is taken away from him. He learns that the word "No" means he has done something that deprives him of our attention.
After a while, all you need to do is say "No" and he will stop whatever bad thing he is doing. You dont always need to put him away or in the box. Just like you dont need to reward after every trick anymore after a bird knows how to do the trick perfectly.

[Michael]

Isn't Kika clipped? How do you propose to give a flighted parrot a "time out?"

"Come here so I could punish you!"... you kidding me?

[Kim S]

Haha, I'm sorry but that mental image was just funny.

Do your birds always fly right back to you after you place them on a stand or a tabletop? That first warning doesn't have to be long. As long as they understand that you put them away. I admit, I have the 'advantage' that Kika is clipped so I can get back to him, in stead of him getting back to me.
The time out box I have has a lid on it. So when a flighted parrot gets a real time-out, you can just put the lid on. He aint going nowhere.

And between you and me, I cant wait till Kika gets his next good molt. I want him flying again!

[Michael]

Sorry, but I don't think this method is effective at all. I learned it the hard way on a flighted parrot and realized that it's not only ineffective but furthermore harmful to the relationship. What happened before was if I perceived that Kili was doing something wrong, I would grab her and stick her back in her cage. By the time I got her back to her cage, she had already forgotten what she had done wrong so she was not learning not to do it. Instead she began to learn to avoid getting grabbed cause that would lead to a time out. By using the cage as punishment it was making putting her away into cage more difficult. Thus I do not do this anymore. Here is the full story:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=285

I do have a simple alternative that is similar in concept and I do use. However, I do not recommend it for most people. If Kili is on me and starts nipping (for attention, play, or whatever), I just shake her off or push her off of me. That forces her to fly to a stand or somewhere else. The negative punishment is thus immediate but mild. It's kind of like "push this button and it starts an earthquake so you fall down." Thus the bird learns not to push it. But as I said, I don't recommend this unless the parrot is fully flighted (clipped parrot will get scared of being on you all together) and bonded (unbonded parrot will just get scared of you overall).

There is absolutely no need to say no. Kili has definitely become much less nippy over the last year so I do believe this method has been effective and reduced the trouble. She can sit on my shoulder for long spans and not bother me.

[Kim S]

I'm sorry, I think I lack the finesse in my English to explain what exactly it is that I mean.

I dont put him in his cage during the time-out. His cage is his safehaven, his home, no place to be sent to for punishment. Thats why I have the time-out box. No toys, no food, no nothing.
I say "no" to link the punishment to the crime. Just like the clicker links the bahavior to the reward.
I pick up Kika all the time for all sorts of things, so he is used to that.
I must say it works for Kika.

The shake-off method is one I use for Guus. He is flighted and he can get away if I do so. To be honoust, its not really working as well as I would like. He makes it into a game: he flies at my head, I swat him away (gently). He comes back again, and I swat him away again. Its like the movie Birds, only with one bird.
Obviously I cant shake Kika off of me since he is clipped. But I have tried the earthquake method before. Where he sits on my hand and bites my finger, I move my hand slightly to get him a little off balance. Result: biting my finger even harder to maintain balance. So that one doesnt work for me either.

Some methods might be better suited to you than others. If the shake-off works, use it. But maybe the time-out has its merits for parrotowners for who the shake off doesnt work.
If it works, use it. If it doest work, try something else.

Thanks for the article, I havent read that one yet. I'll do so first thing in the morning.

[ptuga72]

Kim: I did exactly what you do with Kika, but unfortunately there was too long of a wait between the bite and the time-out (totally my fault, I wasn't very good at implementing it) and Jake needs more immediate consequences to link it with the action. I also tried the "earthquake" but I wasn't entirely comfortable with it and thus resulted in a bigger bite and it negatively impacted our relationship. What works for Jake is the "no bite birdy hold" where I hold him below his cheeks or beak with my index finger and my thumb, cradling his back on my palm. I also gently place my other hand over his tummy and chest (gently) and say "Don't Bite". When he relaxes I place him back where he was and continue business as usual. I don't recommend this for all birds though.

With regards to the OP's original question: I think that you should find a solution that you are able to execute properly and comfortable using with your bird. You should stick with it. Changing your methods frequently can have the opposite of the desired effect. Just like kids, birds behave the best when given consistent guidelines and discipline (when warranted). This discipline should be given by someone comfortable and competent with it. I was not competent at giving "time outs" which is why it didn't work, I also was not comfortable with the "earthquake" and therefore that didn't work.