Primor and Maximo the unclipped B&G without a cage

[Primor]

Please forgive this incredibly long post as I do have a specific question but want to give some background.

My friend and I have lived together for twenty years and we never even had a dog because we did not feel that we could give it the right amount of attention. A short six months ago a woman offered my friend a bird, her parrot because she was moving to the west coast. My friend told me that he had a parrot when he was a child in Brasil and after some thought he said "I want this bird." and I said, “sure!...Great! we can’t have a dog, but I guess we are getting a bird.” And I thought: Birds are pretty to look at I guess, sits in a cage all day, all you have to do is change the paper sometimes, maybe it talks, sounds like it might be kind of interesting.

The lady dropped off the bird with his cage, a few toys, some food, and a very basic book on amazon parrot care. I did not even catch the parrots name because of two language barriers. The woman gave us a beautiful seven year old Red Lored Amazon that we rechristened “Primor”. The former owner did say that the parrot had been confined to his cage his whole life, he was not handled because she was afraid of getting bit and they tried one other home before us but the person could not keep him because of his screaming.

In books and on line, from Primor and now thankfully with this forum I have been trying to learn as much as I can about the care and companionship that a parrot in captivity needs and deserves. In six months’ time slowly building trust, Primor has lost his fear of being handled, never bites or scream any more, he is so sweet, so well behaved. he loves to play by himself shredding a 1X pine block or with toys that I make. He loves the affection and physical contact from both of us equally without being too hormonal about it. Primor gets plenty of supervised sunshine in his cage on our deck and he has plenty of open cage time in the house when one or both of us are home and that is a good portion of the day. Primor really was one content parrot but he was in for yet another lifestyle change.

Only two months ago someone heard that we took in a parrot and wanted to know if we would take his blue and gold Macaw. Like Primor’s former owner this man tried another home but it did not work out, he was not interested in us trying to find his macaw another home; he would only give the bird to us, For a one month trial if we like. After some research I warned my friend against it. It sounded like a bigger bird brings much bigger problems, bigger beak, bigger mess, bigger everything and most of all I did not want it to have negative effects on Primor, the bird that we already made a commitment to.

After some thought my friend said, “I want this bird” and I said, “Sure!...Great! we couldn’t have a dog but I guess we are getting another bird” and I thought this should be interesting. The owner gave us his nineteen year old blue and gold named Max without a cage, saying that the macaw has been on his perch his whole life. Max’s “perch” consisted of one three foot tall post and a one branch perch with his food bowl and water bowl on each end of this one branch. In other words he was trapped between these two bowls on one branch with just a few short nubs jutting off of it. One of these nubs disappeared at some point and all that remained was the lag bolt that the bird was chewing on! They were letting him damage his beak on a ¼” lag bolt. The first thing that I did was to add a perch to cover the lag bolt and I then added perches to move his food and water bowls further out, as well as perches of various diameters to give him more places to go. The second thing I did was to change his name from Max to Maximo.

Maximo is working through some biting and even worse than his huge beak is the blood curdling screaming, but nothing that we can’t solve with time and effort, I hope. Max is another bird that was neglected, not handled out of fear, but like Primor, Maximo has become super affectionate and playful with both of us and Primor has adjusted incredibly well to another bird in the house; if anything I think it expanded his world. I never dreamed that I would have two birds and now I have the extreme pleasure of having two Parrots, fooling them into thinking that this captive existence is where they belong and where they can thrive.

So my concern is about Max on living his perch 24/7, Most of all as incredible as this sounds because his wings are not clipped. The former owner never had his wings clipped and swears that he NEVER flies. I have read a few similar posts on the Parrot Forum but none quite like Max, an unclipped Macaw without a cage. I realize that every bird and every circumstance is unique. I also know that I need to provide him with other fun bird safe places to go besides his newly refurbished perch and this will not be too difficult because I can see that he is very adventurous. my final thought is that clipping Maximo’s wings is not really an option as I think he is very confidant and I believe the whole process would not be good for him.

And my question is this: should we be working towards getting him in a cage for his own safety and perhaps to sleep? Or is this not even a question but just an unequivocal yes?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read all of this, and your thoughts and feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Robert

[Lady]

Wow, what a interesting read! What wonderful things you guys have accomplished. I am not an expert but I would think having a large enough cage for Maximo to sleep in and feel safe in would be to his advantage. I look at the cage as kind of their own private space and feel everyone needs one.

The pictures are great, what beautiful birds they are~!

[Wolf]

Wonderful story and thank you for accepting these birds and giving them a good home. I think that it is wonderful that Maximo is able to live cage free. But I also think that at the very least that your birds need to have a travel cage, just in case you have to take them to the vets or in case of an emergency.
I have other animals in my house so all of my birds have their own cages, this is for their protection for when they go to sleep or for when I have to be where I can't keep an eye on them to keep them safe from my dogs and cats. I also have a travel cage for most of them, I still have to get one more travel cage. My birds like their cages as they are never used to shut them up as punishment or even closed when I am able to be in the house with them, they just look at them as their house in my house, sort of like their bedroom as it were. I can't say that I like cages for birds at all but, at least in my house I can't imagine not having a safe way to contain them at least in an emergency, or to go to the vets.
I hope that this will help you with this issue, I like to leave my birds out as much as possible, but I also want to provide for their safety regardless of what situation I may have crop up.

[cml]

Welcome to the forum Robert, glad to have you with us.

Thanks for bringing Primor and Maximo in and I think you are on the right track and have the right attitude for parrot ownership !
Also, I am very happy for them that you will not clip them - thanks for letting them be birds and not maimed "pets".

Maximo is working through some biting and even worse than his huge beak is the blood curdling screaming, but nothing that we can’t solve with time and effort, I hope.

I've worked through screaming with our amazon a few years back and its doable. He NEVER screams anymore.

My advice is simple but has been very effective:
Ignore all screaming, the method doesnt work if you dont.

I am sure Maximo is making some sound that you like, that's not a scream no?
When he does that sound, RUN, and I mean run to him if you arent in the same room and praise and make a hell of a big deal of that sound, praise and give treats and tell him how good he is. It wont take many days for him to start realise that making this sound is a whole lot better than screaming which gets him nothing. Parrots are very intelligent as you've figured out already .

Now, this only removes the screaming and replaces it with a new contact call which is very nice and all that, but you still need to work on why he's screaming. Probably he feels confined on his perch and is calling out for his flock.
I think you are working in the right direction with expanding his perch, if possible maybe you could build some "parrot roads" around the room with sisal rope or something similar? Since he's out all the time I doubt its a lack of out of cage time that's behind the screaming.
What's his diet? There could be something we can improve there .

On the cage question, yes I would definetely get him a big cage. Not that he should be in it alot, but because you need it sometimes. For example, not all guests are happy with big flying birds , even if they initially say so. It's also for their safety and security and he needs to be trained to go into a carrier for vet visits etc.
Personally, I would get a cage, and leave it open most of the time. Serve all dinners in the cage to make it a positive place to hang out. Also, add lots of toys etc to make it a fun area for him to play in.

Additionally, its great that Primor gets sunshine on the deck, something that Maximo should get as well which is another reason to get a cage for him. NEVER, and I mean NEVER take a bird outside unless in a cage or in a harness, even if it's clipped it can fly away. I've heard too many stories about people losing their birds this way .

[Pajarita]

Well, as usual, I am the dissenting voice. I don't believe in cages and the only large birds I have in one are two old amazons that have severe liver and kidneys issues and which tend to be bullied by the other amazons and, as they were getting stressed out because of this, I put them in a cage when I am not in the birdroom. But these birds lived in a cage all their lives before they came to me and are weak and cannot defend themselves so the cage was not something they did not know, they have each other and are actually doing much, much better now than before before the cage prevents the other birds from pushing them around (they would steal their food by pushing them out of the way). In my personal opinion, no healthy, content, well-adjusted bird likes living in a cage. People compare it to a 'home' but that's because we, as humans, need one to protect us from predators. Birds don't. Flight protects them from ground predators and the 'safety in numbers' as well as the tree canopy from birds of prey. They don't need 'homes' unless they are sick, handicapped, wounded, hurt or weakened for whatever reason, then they look for a place to hide.

Now, with this macaw, if he never lived in a cage in his life, putting him in one for hours and hours is going to be a huge change for him. The ideal solution would be for you to try it and see what happens - but how practical is that when a macaw cage is going to set you back about $900 -over $3,000? Personally, I find that too much for a trial. He definitely needs a better 'home' than a perch but maybe you can assign a corner of a room for him where you can put a number of different perches (stay away from the smooth round perches), a net, maybe a metal platform hanging from the ceiling with rope braids joining it to the perches... You can put a piece of linoleum on the floor to protect it and, as long as he has good artificial and natural light and plenty to chew, he should be perfectly happy there. Of course, this means bird-proofing the room 100% because, as he feels better and more confident, he will start exploring and you can risk his getting into anything dangerous when nobody is around. Or, you can set up an extra room as a birdroom where they can live cage-free when you are both out of the house.

Now, I don't mean to make you or your partner feel bad but you thought that a parrot was less work than a dog?! LOL- I have seven dogs and eight cats and all of them put together don't give me as much work as the Senegal I keep as a pet (the others live in a birdroom).

[cml]

Well, as usual, I am the dissenting voice. I don't believe in cages and the only large birds I have in one are two old amazons that have severe liver and kidneys issues and which tend to be bullied by the other amazons and, as they were getting stressed out because of this, I put them in a cage when I am not in the birdroom.

But the bird room is your huge cage , and if you dont have a bird room I think a cage will be needed from time to time.

Now, with this macaw, if he never lived in a cage in his life, putting him in one for hours and hours is going to be a huge change for him.

Who said anything about hours and hours?
I wrote above:

On the cage question, yes I would definetely get him a big cage. Not that he should be in it alot, but because you need it sometimes. For example, not all guests are happy with big flying birds , even if they initially say so. It's also for their safety and security and he needs to be trained to go into a carrier for vet visits etc.
Personally, I would get a cage, and leave it open most of the time. Serve all dinners in the cage to make it a positive place to hang out. Also, add lots of toys etc to make it a fun area for him to play in.

Summarised: Not be in the cage alot, open cage policy, eat in the cage to have it as a secure and fun place to be.

In my personal opinion, no healthy, content, well-adjusted bird likes living in a cage.

I very much disagree. My birds are out almost all the time when I am home, but if I happen to leave the door to the parrot room open, they will fly back to the cage to rest after a while, and after a while they come back out to play again. They DEFINETELY want to go in when its time to sleep, about 30min 1hr before bedtime they get restless when out and want to snuggle up on their sleeping perch in their cage.
Of course they wouldnt like living in it 24/7 if they werent allowed out, but they see it as a safe and fun place - just as it should be.

[Wolf]

Iam sorry if I wasn't clear in my post but the only cage that I suggested for your Macaw is a travel cage for use in emergencies and for transport to a vet if needed. I envy the ability to leave your bird out all of the time but in my home that is not an option so I have to have cages. I do have my birds out of their cages whenever I am home to watch over them so that they don't get hurt.