New flock member + discussing birdie laws
23 posts • Page 2 of 3 • 1, 2, 3
Re: New flock member + discussing birdie laws
by Pajarita » Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:50 am
Law enforcement is always an issue but even poorly enforced laws have a positive effect in the large scheme of things if, for nothing else, the moral stigma that breaking one implies. As to hand-fed versus parent-raised, it's not tameness that tells you, it's their reaction to feeding implements.
- Pajarita
- Norwegian Blue
- Gender:
- Posts: 18604
- Location: NW Pa
- Number of Birds Owned: 30
- Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
- Flight: Yes
Re: New flock member + discussing birdie laws
by mrbowlerhat » Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:22 pm
Okay so I haven't really read all of what's been said in this post, but I know I've been excited about this since I first heard of it!
I love it. Oh, and the update of the laws also included a lot of new restrictions on wing-clipping too, which is awesome. It's just great.
We also have awesome minimum cage size requirements! My IRNs, for example, require a cage that is at least 63"x35", and 39" tall.
...I mean, I do have a cage that big, but honestly, I currently use one that's a bit smaller for my IRNs because I feel like my sennies need the bigger cage more right now. Hopefully I'll get another big cage soon, but until then, please don't tell on me!
Anyway, the Swedish Board of Agriculture (the people behind our pet related laws, and also the people who come check up on you if they've had anyone tell them you're probably not a pretty good pet owner) has to my knowledge been known to be pretty understanding about things like a lot of the questions you've all had here. For example the one about if you already have two parrots of totally different species that get along, they won't make you get even more birds to screw that relationship up. If it already works, that will be just fine. The thing about the two-birds-of-the-same-genus-thing is probably just to encourage new owners or one-bird-owners to get another bird of the same genus from now on.
The law also states that if you're able to provide as much social stimulation as another bird could, you're allowed to keep having your one bird. That's pretty vague, and I have no idea how they're going to judge who can give their bird that much company, because in my opinion, that's impossible. But yeah.
Anyway, they most likely won't, like, come and take away anybody's bird that's been an only bird for 30 years and won't have it any other way, or a bird whose owners can't afford purchasing and taking care of another animal right now. That's not it. I'm sure they understand that a lot of people and birds will have trouble trying to correct themselves after a new law like this.
The goal is to improve for the future, to encourage new potential owners to get two (parent-raised) birds to begin with, to educate both new and experienced owners and to shed some light on why these new rules exist and what good they'll hopefully do.
Oh and as a side note, imagine how much easier it is for us in Sweden to educate when we see people doing it wrong! Telling them that what they're doing is illegal is often easier than just trying to tell them that their bird would be healthier if they changed what they've always been doing.
I've found that people generally take less offense when my "opinions" are supported by law...
Anyway, like I said, I love our bird related laws! They're really great most of the time, and hopefully they'll be even better in a couple of years.
If anyone would be interested, I'm perhaps willing to spend some time translating them to English. I think that could be an interesting discussion.
Oh and congrats on the new family member, Elaihr!
I love it. Oh, and the update of the laws also included a lot of new restrictions on wing-clipping too, which is awesome. It's just great.
We also have awesome minimum cage size requirements! My IRNs, for example, require a cage that is at least 63"x35", and 39" tall.
...I mean, I do have a cage that big, but honestly, I currently use one that's a bit smaller for my IRNs because I feel like my sennies need the bigger cage more right now. Hopefully I'll get another big cage soon, but until then, please don't tell on me!
Anyway, the Swedish Board of Agriculture (the people behind our pet related laws, and also the people who come check up on you if they've had anyone tell them you're probably not a pretty good pet owner) has to my knowledge been known to be pretty understanding about things like a lot of the questions you've all had here. For example the one about if you already have two parrots of totally different species that get along, they won't make you get even more birds to screw that relationship up. If it already works, that will be just fine. The thing about the two-birds-of-the-same-genus-thing is probably just to encourage new owners or one-bird-owners to get another bird of the same genus from now on.
The law also states that if you're able to provide as much social stimulation as another bird could, you're allowed to keep having your one bird. That's pretty vague, and I have no idea how they're going to judge who can give their bird that much company, because in my opinion, that's impossible. But yeah.
Anyway, they most likely won't, like, come and take away anybody's bird that's been an only bird for 30 years and won't have it any other way, or a bird whose owners can't afford purchasing and taking care of another animal right now. That's not it. I'm sure they understand that a lot of people and birds will have trouble trying to correct themselves after a new law like this.
The goal is to improve for the future, to encourage new potential owners to get two (parent-raised) birds to begin with, to educate both new and experienced owners and to shed some light on why these new rules exist and what good they'll hopefully do.
Oh and as a side note, imagine how much easier it is for us in Sweden to educate when we see people doing it wrong! Telling them that what they're doing is illegal is often easier than just trying to tell them that their bird would be healthier if they changed what they've always been doing.
I've found that people generally take less offense when my "opinions" are supported by law...
Anyway, like I said, I love our bird related laws! They're really great most of the time, and hopefully they'll be even better in a couple of years.
If anyone would be interested, I'm perhaps willing to spend some time translating them to English. I think that could be an interesting discussion.
Oh and congrats on the new family member, Elaihr!
-
mrbowlerhat - Conure
- Gender:
- Posts: 181
- Location: Sweden
- Number of Birds Owned: 6
- Types of Birds Owned: Senegals, Indian Ringnecks, Cockatiels
- Flight: Yes
Re: New flock member + discussing birdie laws
by Wolf » Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:36 pm
I think that the discussion potential is awesome, but aside from that I would love to be able to read the laws myself. So I am very much interested in this.
- Wolf
- Macaw
- Gender:
- Posts: 8679
- Location: Lansing, NC
- Number of Birds Owned: 6
- Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie - Flight: Yes
Re: New flock member + discussing birdie laws
by mrbowlerhat » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:10 pm
I gave it a shot! Sorry about any grammatical errors, I ran it through Google Translate and corrected what errors I could find as to make it at least understandable. I hope it is!
Minimum cage size requirement chart (a slightly easier version than the actual one):
1 § Pet birds of species that does not live solitary in the wild should be kept in pairs or groups in a shared storage space. Space measurements and number of birds should be adjusted so that the birds does not hurt or stress eachother.
If a bird is abnormally aggressive towards other birds, so that there is an obvious risk it hurts them, it may, regardless of the first paragraph be kept alone in a separate space. It must still be able to communicate visually and verbally with one or more individuals of the same species or genus.
The first paragraph does not apply if the birds’ need to be with other birds is instead satisfied through contact with humans.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 1 §
If it is necessary in order to avoid unnecessary stress, when birds are kept in separate spaces, one can define the cages so the birds are able to choose whether they want to expose themselves to each other or not.
If the bird's need for social contact is to be covered by human contact, the social interaction with humans should be of a scale that ensures that no abnormal behaviors caused by the lack of social contact occurs.
2 § Limitation of flight may only occur if
1. the bird is over a year old,
2. the bird can not be trained to use the flight harness,
3. limitation is achieved by trimming of the wings, and
4. wing trimming only occurs once a year.
Wing trimming should be done so that the bird, even after the restriction, has a good stability and sufficient lift to eliminate the risk of being injured while attempting to fly.
If there are medical reasons, a bird's flying ability, regardless of the first
paragraph, can be limited more than once a year.
3 § A companion bird may not be tethered via a leash connected to leg or leg band. A leash that is handled by a human may be temporarily attached to the bird via a flight harness or equivalent.
§ 4 An unweaned baby bird should be kept with at least one feeding adult bird. Hand feeding may only occur if the adults do not feed the chicks or if the adult birds' behavior is harmful to the chicks.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 4 §
Chicks of the following genera and species should be kept after hatching
together with at least one feeding adult bird as follows:
Budgerigar – at least 6 weeks
Cockatiel – at least 7 weeks
Lovebirds (Agapornis spp.) - at least 6 weeks
Canary - at least 30 days
Zebra finches – at least 30 days
Society finch - at least 30 days
Java sparrow - at least 30 days.
Young males that starts showing their adult plumage should not be kept with the father bird.
5 § Breeding pet birds should not be allowed to produce as many clutches in a row that it affect their health adversely.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 5 §
Breeding pet birds should not be allowed to have more than two clutches in a row during breeding season. If one clutch was unusually small, the birds can be given the opportunity to have three clutches during the period.
§ 6 Ground living pet birds should not be kept on wire floors.
7 § Pet birds should be housed in spaces of at least the measurements set out in 1:1 (The cage size chart above). During bird shows/expos, pet birds may temporarily, for a period of maximum one day, be housed in smaller cages.
8 § The bottom of cages for ground living pet birds should be covered with bedding/litter.
9 § Pet birds should be kept in an enriched environment that stimulates them to
perform their natural behaviors and prevents the development of behavioral disorders.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 9 §
The environment should include materials adapted to the species requirements, such as natural materials and devices to climb, swing and jump on, materials or objects to chew on and pick apart, and bottom substrate, set-up and feeding devices that stimulates foraging behavior. An enriched environment is maintained through replacing enrichment objects and methods at frequent intervals so that the bird does not lose interest and stop using the objects. Pet birds should have daily access to spaces where they can perform natural movement, such as flying freely.
10 § Pet birds of species that are not only ground dwelling should have at least two clean perches.
If several birds are kept together, there should be perches to the extent that all birds can perch at the same time without competition or aggression occuring.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 10 §
If several pet birds are kept together, the total length of all perches together should be larger than twice the measure of the total birds’ chest width.
§ 11 Perches should be of a thickness adapted to the bird's foot size and be made of a material which, without being abrasive, gives the bird a sufficient foothold.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 11 §
At least one perch should be so thick that the bird can not get its toes fully around it.
Perches should be of different diameters or shapes so that the bird can train its feet with different grips. Perches should be made of wood or other material with similar qualities.
§ 12 Perches should be positioned so that the cage volume can be utilized to the maximum possible flight distance, and so the droppings does not contaminate food, water or other birds, and so that the birds' tail feathers does not but occasionally come into contact with food, water or cage bottoms.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 12 §
In a rectangular cage at least two perches should be placed edgeways in opposite ends of the cage. Interior should not be placed between perches in such a way that birds' flight opportunities are obstructed.
13 § Ground dwelling pet birds should have a set-up where they can find shelter on the bottom of the cage.
14 § Sand Bathing pet birds should have clean and fine sand for sand baths.
15 § Bathing pet birds should have clean water. Bird bath design and depth should be adapted to the birds' size and species. A bird bath must be shallow enough for the bird to reach the bottom.
16 § Pet birds may be kept at lower temperatures than the species under normal weather conditions are exposed to in the wild, provided that this does not affect their health, and that they are allowed to get used gradually to the lower temperature.
Pet birds should have access to a room where the temperature is above 0° C.
17 § Breeding pet birds and pet birds that are kept in a new environment should have a dim nightlight.
18 § If several pet birds are kept together, every, without being hindered by eachother, should be able to reach the food.
Pet birds with a high metabolism or special needs should have free access to
food.
Ornamental poultry held outdoors or in a building where the temperature is below 0° C should be given lukewarm drinking water at least twice a day.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 18 §
If several pet birds are kept together, food should be available so that
at least one third of the birds are able to eat at the same time. Empty husks
in the feed container should be removed often so that food is always accessible for the birds.
Small pet birds, of a length less than 15 cm, as well as pet birds that mainly eat nectar, fruits and insects should have free access to food.
Breeding pet birds should have free access to calcium supplements. Small pet birds and seed-eating pet birds that are not peeling the seeds should have free access to digestive gravel/grit. Small birds, such as canaries and similar species, should be given digestive gravel/grit with a grain size of 0.8 to 1.2 mm. Larger birds may also be given digestive gravel/grit with a grain size of 1.2 to 2.0 mm.
Minimum cage size requirement chart (a slightly easier version than the actual one):
1 § Pet birds of species that does not live solitary in the wild should be kept in pairs or groups in a shared storage space. Space measurements and number of birds should be adjusted so that the birds does not hurt or stress eachother.
If a bird is abnormally aggressive towards other birds, so that there is an obvious risk it hurts them, it may, regardless of the first paragraph be kept alone in a separate space. It must still be able to communicate visually and verbally with one or more individuals of the same species or genus.
The first paragraph does not apply if the birds’ need to be with other birds is instead satisfied through contact with humans.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 1 §
If it is necessary in order to avoid unnecessary stress, when birds are kept in separate spaces, one can define the cages so the birds are able to choose whether they want to expose themselves to each other or not.
If the bird's need for social contact is to be covered by human contact, the social interaction with humans should be of a scale that ensures that no abnormal behaviors caused by the lack of social contact occurs.
2 § Limitation of flight may only occur if
1. the bird is over a year old,
2. the bird can not be trained to use the flight harness,
3. limitation is achieved by trimming of the wings, and
4. wing trimming only occurs once a year.
Wing trimming should be done so that the bird, even after the restriction, has a good stability and sufficient lift to eliminate the risk of being injured while attempting to fly.
If there are medical reasons, a bird's flying ability, regardless of the first
paragraph, can be limited more than once a year.
3 § A companion bird may not be tethered via a leash connected to leg or leg band. A leash that is handled by a human may be temporarily attached to the bird via a flight harness or equivalent.
§ 4 An unweaned baby bird should be kept with at least one feeding adult bird. Hand feeding may only occur if the adults do not feed the chicks or if the adult birds' behavior is harmful to the chicks.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 4 §
Chicks of the following genera and species should be kept after hatching
together with at least one feeding adult bird as follows:
Budgerigar – at least 6 weeks
Cockatiel – at least 7 weeks
Lovebirds (Agapornis spp.) - at least 6 weeks
Canary - at least 30 days
Zebra finches – at least 30 days
Society finch - at least 30 days
Java sparrow - at least 30 days.
Young males that starts showing their adult plumage should not be kept with the father bird.
5 § Breeding pet birds should not be allowed to produce as many clutches in a row that it affect their health adversely.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 5 §
Breeding pet birds should not be allowed to have more than two clutches in a row during breeding season. If one clutch was unusually small, the birds can be given the opportunity to have three clutches during the period.
§ 6 Ground living pet birds should not be kept on wire floors.
7 § Pet birds should be housed in spaces of at least the measurements set out in 1:1 (The cage size chart above). During bird shows/expos, pet birds may temporarily, for a period of maximum one day, be housed in smaller cages.
8 § The bottom of cages for ground living pet birds should be covered with bedding/litter.
9 § Pet birds should be kept in an enriched environment that stimulates them to
perform their natural behaviors and prevents the development of behavioral disorders.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 9 §
The environment should include materials adapted to the species requirements, such as natural materials and devices to climb, swing and jump on, materials or objects to chew on and pick apart, and bottom substrate, set-up and feeding devices that stimulates foraging behavior. An enriched environment is maintained through replacing enrichment objects and methods at frequent intervals so that the bird does not lose interest and stop using the objects. Pet birds should have daily access to spaces where they can perform natural movement, such as flying freely.
10 § Pet birds of species that are not only ground dwelling should have at least two clean perches.
If several birds are kept together, there should be perches to the extent that all birds can perch at the same time without competition or aggression occuring.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 10 §
If several pet birds are kept together, the total length of all perches together should be larger than twice the measure of the total birds’ chest width.
§ 11 Perches should be of a thickness adapted to the bird's foot size and be made of a material which, without being abrasive, gives the bird a sufficient foothold.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 11 §
At least one perch should be so thick that the bird can not get its toes fully around it.
Perches should be of different diameters or shapes so that the bird can train its feet with different grips. Perches should be made of wood or other material with similar qualities.
§ 12 Perches should be positioned so that the cage volume can be utilized to the maximum possible flight distance, and so the droppings does not contaminate food, water or other birds, and so that the birds' tail feathers does not but occasionally come into contact with food, water or cage bottoms.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 12 §
In a rectangular cage at least two perches should be placed edgeways in opposite ends of the cage. Interior should not be placed between perches in such a way that birds' flight opportunities are obstructed.
13 § Ground dwelling pet birds should have a set-up where they can find shelter on the bottom of the cage.
14 § Sand Bathing pet birds should have clean and fine sand for sand baths.
15 § Bathing pet birds should have clean water. Bird bath design and depth should be adapted to the birds' size and species. A bird bath must be shallow enough for the bird to reach the bottom.
16 § Pet birds may be kept at lower temperatures than the species under normal weather conditions are exposed to in the wild, provided that this does not affect their health, and that they are allowed to get used gradually to the lower temperature.
Pet birds should have access to a room where the temperature is above 0° C.
17 § Breeding pet birds and pet birds that are kept in a new environment should have a dim nightlight.
18 § If several pet birds are kept together, every, without being hindered by eachother, should be able to reach the food.
Pet birds with a high metabolism or special needs should have free access to
food.
Ornamental poultry held outdoors or in a building where the temperature is below 0° C should be given lukewarm drinking water at least twice a day.
Guidelines to Chapter 6. 18 §
If several pet birds are kept together, food should be available so that
at least one third of the birds are able to eat at the same time. Empty husks
in the feed container should be removed often so that food is always accessible for the birds.
Small pet birds, of a length less than 15 cm, as well as pet birds that mainly eat nectar, fruits and insects should have free access to food.
Breeding pet birds should have free access to calcium supplements. Small pet birds and seed-eating pet birds that are not peeling the seeds should have free access to digestive gravel/grit. Small birds, such as canaries and similar species, should be given digestive gravel/grit with a grain size of 0.8 to 1.2 mm. Larger birds may also be given digestive gravel/grit with a grain size of 1.2 to 2.0 mm.
-
mrbowlerhat - Conure
- Gender:
- Posts: 181
- Location: Sweden
- Number of Birds Owned: 6
- Types of Birds Owned: Senegals, Indian Ringnecks, Cockatiels
- Flight: Yes
Re: New flock member + discussing birdie laws
by Elaihr » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:09 am
Thank you mrbowlerhat! I also think these laws are mainly to make life better for pet birds from now on rather than for punishing people who have done wrong before, which I think is a good thing. And like Pajarita says, even if there's always ways around the laws, people will be more likely to follow the laws rather than breaking them as long as they're reasonable, which I think this one is (in most cases). My biggest concern would be if a controlling unit doesn't have enough knowledge about bird keeping to judge wisely, but my hope is that these people will receive proper training and information so that won't happen
-
Elaihr - Cockatiel
- Gender:
- Posts: 87
- Location: Sweden
- Number of Birds Owned: 2
- Types of Birds Owned: Blue-headed Pionus (Pionus menstruus)
- Flight: Yes
Re: New flock member + discussing birdie laws
by Pajarita » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:37 am
WOW!!! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE TRANSLATION! I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE this law! Every single country should have one just like it! I would elaborate a bit more certain points but, all in all, a fabulous law which would make pet birds lives much, much better. It will not happen in USA because everything here is governed by money and the pet industry (a billionaire industry) would not allow it but one can always hope...
- Pajarita
- Norwegian Blue
- Gender:
- Posts: 18604
- Location: NW Pa
- Number of Birds Owned: 30
- Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
- Flight: Yes
Re: New flock member + discussing birdie laws
by Wolf » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:07 pm
Thank you very much for the translation as I really did want to see what this was all about, and I must admit that I am impressed with this one as it actually makes sense, which is a new thing for me. I like this one and would like to say that I would love to see a duplicate of it here in USA.
What is the conversion to inches from cm?
What is the conversion to inches from cm?
- Wolf
- Macaw
- Gender:
- Posts: 8679
- Location: Lansing, NC
- Number of Birds Owned: 6
- Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie - Flight: Yes
-
Harpmaker - Amazon
- Gender:
- Posts: 637
- Location: Southern California
- Number of Birds Owned: 1
- Types of Birds Owned: Meyer's Parrot
- Flight: Yes
- Wolf
- Macaw
- Gender:
- Posts: 8679
- Location: Lansing, NC
- Number of Birds Owned: 6
- Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie - Flight: Yes
Re: New flock member + discussing birdie laws
by Elaihr » Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:00 am
I'm glad to see most people seem positive about this law! So much bird love 
We got Joy this saturday and she seems just fine so far. I really hope things will work out well and that she and Penny will become friends I'm so excited! Penny seems to have noticed there's another bird in this home instantly, she's more "talkative" (more chirping) and seems very curious and energetic. Keeping my fingers this will work out!
We got Joy this saturday and she seems just fine so far. I really hope things will work out well and that she and Penny will become friends
I'm so excited! Penny seems to have noticed there's another bird in this home instantly, she's more "talkative" (more chirping) and seems very curious and energetic. Keeping my fingers this will work out!-
Elaihr - Cockatiel
- Gender:
- Posts: 87
- Location: Sweden
- Number of Birds Owned: 2
- Types of Birds Owned: Blue-headed Pionus (Pionus menstruus)
- Flight: Yes
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