Sort of venting...Parrots who are alone?

[DanaandPod]

I just think that the idea that any parrot owner should be working at home or home most of every day is not just idealistic but unrealistic. I understand it to a degree...but...then I don't and go back and forth. Is there any real scientific proof of how much time alone is detrimental to a parrots well being? Also, someone recently told me that if you get another parrot and they wind up not bonding...then they could scream at one another. Not very conducive to apartment living... though I guess ok if you have a house and can tolerate the screaming. Has anyone had this happen where they got another bird only for them to scream at each other? Parrots exist in the market whether people like it or not... I just think that with daily quality interaction and exercise...and best you can do diet...and toys and thought and music etc. while gone for some stimulation...And, making up that time best you can when you are home.. And, your bird is looking healthy and not picking its feathers out etc. Like, mine for example... then why believe that he is not well. Is there a true study or an article that someone can post a link of about how parrots are in a state of anxiety when home alone? Understandably there are people who have made better homes for a rehomed parrot...but that is not always the case. Infact, my home is the best one from what info I've been given on him. This poor little guy...it took me three days to scrub the cigarette smoke film off of his cage...as one example. I told him I would not abandon him...sounding a bit cookie here... but... I think if circumstances were severe...I'd find another way or rehome... but if they are healthy, with toys/love stimulation... how bad could it be. Sometimes when away from home and feeling severe guilt...I think... but, there have been times at home while busy or on the computer that my bird does nothing but perch near by...and for some odd reason... he likes dark places to do so tooo... like under my desk! So is he really in a state of panick and dread and misery when I am not home? I mean, c'mon. Sometimes I think this is like in child care...where everyone thinks they are the best caretaker and nobody else can hold a torch. Even I thought so till I came on here with more experienced folks. But, I still do my best. The real ones, the parrots I mean, who are suffering...are out there with owners who don't care at all. I like to think though does anyone know or have proof? that my parrot can tell how much I care.

[liz]

It depends on how much you left for him to entertain himself. Is he near a window with a bird feeder outside? Does he have things to chew on? Do you leave a radio on for him? I have even heard of people calling their answering machines to talk to their pets.

Yes, Rambo & Myrtle have screaming contests. In the winter when the windows are closed I join them. They also call to each other when not in the same room. Your right, they could not be apartment dwellers.

When Rambo came to me he had a cockatiel buddy named Curley. Neither one were caged and they roamed the house with cats and dogs.
He was loved and treated like a kid. When he came to me he thought he went to heaven, not that I knew anything about birds but, because of the kayos in my house. When she came to visit he hid in a cardboard box. I mean he really hid and got very quiet. When I found him he gave me a look like "don't tell on me or she will take me home". It was 3 times before he realized she was not going to take him back.

[DanaandPod]

It depends on how much you left for him to entertain himself. Is he near a window with a bird feeder outside? Does he have things to chew on? Do you leave a radio on for him? I have even heard of people calling their answering machines to talk to their pets.

Yes, Rambo & Myrtle have screaming contests. In the winter when the windows are closed I join them. They also call to each other when not in the same room. Your right, they could not be apartment dwellers.

When Rambo came to me he had a cockatiel buddy named Curley. Neither one were caged and they roamed the house with cats and dogs.
He was loved and treated like a kid. When he came to me he thought he went to heaven, not that I knew anything about birds but, because of the kayos in my house. When she came to visit he hid in a cardboard box. I mean he really hid and got very quiet. When I found him he gave me a look like "don't tell on me or she will take me home". It was 3 times before he realized she was not going to take him back.

because of the kayos? well one thing they did that was good was visit to see hes cared for well.

[Pajarita]

Yes, there is a study done with African grays that found that parrots that lived without another parrot (not even alone all the time, because they did have their owners) have shorter telomeres than parrots that lived with another one (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 221746.htm).

Telomeres are the 'tail' end of chromosomes and act as protectors or buffers. To put it simply, every time a cell regenerates, the telomere is a bit shorter - the shorter the telomere, the less amount of lifetime you have left. But stress also shortens telomeres. And animals that evolved to live in a specific conformation of a social group, suffer from stress when alone because it's hard-wired into their genes that they need the flock, herd, pride, pack or whatever the social group might be for that particular animal around them. This applies to all social animals but more so to the undomesticated ones.

So, yes, we do know for a fact that been alone is stressful to parrots. And no, your parrot is not happy. Neither are mine or anybody else's regardless of what people might want to believe about it. You can't take a baby from its parents and give it to a giant alien race to raise and imprint (an alien race that cannot provide the same care, food, teachings as the parents could), keep it in an alien environment which does not provide the environmental conditions of its natural habitat, jail it 22 hours a day, feed it unnatural food, prevent it from properly exercising, acquiring a mate, procreating, etc and expect the animal to be happy. Now, that is completely unrealistic!

[liz]

Dana, after treating him like a baby for 11 years she got pregnant and was going to sell him. I had met him and could not let that happen. I took him. All I knew about him was that he was green, walked and talked. She didn't even tell me what to feed him.

She was not coming to check on him. She did not even ask about him is why he was able to hide. She came over to cry on my shoulder that she found out her husband had a girlfriend and the girlfriend was farther along on a pregnancy.

[TooLove]

It's certainly not ideal no, but not all of us are lucky enough to work from home. And you certainly need some source of income to keep parrots! I'm in school roughly 8 hours a day right now, during the summer I work in a vet hospital where I am lucky enough to take my 'too along on long shifts. My boss recommends a minimum of 3 hours outside of the cage daily, and I'll be honest some days it's hard to meet that. But my 'too has 2 giant windows to watch the neighborhood, I leave the tv or radio on occasionally, and he has to forage for his food during the day. He has all of his feathers and he isn't a screamer (and being a student apartment dweller I would certainly have heard about it). He might not be thrilled with the current situation but I am working hard to get a job where I will be able to provide him with an awesome bird room etc etc.

[Wolf]

We do know that parrots should not be left alone for any length of time as they evolved in a flock setting wherein they were rarely if ever alone. I know from my research that the people who are in the field researching parrots in the wild do not see just one parrot, they consistently remark that they always see at least two parrots.
Many times the answers that I give are derived from years of experience with animals other than parrots combined with a lot of research on parrots. I have to rely on this method due to my limited personal experience with these remarkable creatures. I only have personal hands on experience with five species of these birds and even then that is limited to about three years. All of these birds came to me as adults and all came from situations that were not good for them and so all of them have had trust issues. At present only one species that live with me has a mate, although I am working on a mate for another one of them. With the mated pair one plucks severely and the other has liver issues. Of the others tow of the pluck, but are in remission and are now regrowing their feathers, it is one of these that I am currently working on getting a mate for. I have one who came to me with severe anxiety and depression issues, she has made great strides in recovering, even though she is still prone to relapses, they are much less severe than to begin with. The last one is learning that she can say no without attacking as this was the only way that she knew to say this, she is very aggressive and still insecure in this area, but she too has made tremendous improvements in this area.
One of the things, I believe that has helped in their individual recoveries from their previous existence is that they are never alone. They may not all have mates, but they do all live in the same room with each other and can talk to each other even if I must be away from them on occasion. Without naming their names or species, these are the birds that I live with and interact with on a daily basis.
Are these birds stress free? I don't believe that they are, despite my very best efforts, I don't think that they are without more stress than they should have.
Are they happy? Pajarita would jump right in, and probably still will with a resounding no, and I am good with that. For me, I am not so certain either way. I see times with them that I can only conclude that they are happy and even at times very happy, and I see times that there is no doubt in my mind that they are less happy. Are they content? Again, I can only surmise from their actions and body language and for the majority of the time it would appear that they are at least content. They also have periods that I have to say no, they are not content and would prefer more or better conditions than I can provide and still keep them safe.
I don't think that any person or group of people can provide conditions in which their birds are happy all of the time, I can't even provide those conditions for myself, and I have never met anyone else regardless of how well off or affluent they are that can provide those conditions for themselves either. If we can't provide those conditions for ourselves, I don't see that we can provide them for anyone else, whether they are human or bird or dog or cat or what.
I do think that we can provide well enough that our birds can be and are happy part of the time and to where they can be content most of the time. I also think that you, the individuals that have birds for companions are the ones that are in the best position to tell where your bird is as regards to how much of the time it is happy and/ or content or not. It is far easier for me to see when your bird is less than happy and I see this more often than not, and this is because most of us only ask questions about our birds when we are having difficulties, which means that neither bird nor human is happy with or about something. Most of us don't write many stories about our birds and how happy the bird is.
So these are my thoughts on this matter, for the most part. Are my birds happy? Sometimes, they are very happy and sometimes not. Can they be happier? I think so. I think that they could be happier and I think that they could be happier more often and for longer periods of time. Are my birds unhappy? Sometimes they are, but I don't think that they are unhappy most of the time.

[TooLove]

I don't think that any person or group of people can provide conditions in which their birds are happy all of the time, I can't even provide those conditions for myself, and I have never met anyone else regardless of how well off or affluent they are that can provide those conditions for themselves either. If we can't provide those conditions for ourselves, I don't see that we can provide them for anyone else, whether they are human or bird or dog or cat or what.

There's nothing wrong with this. We want our birds to be happy all the time and try to replicate a natural enough environment that we can make that happen, but being happy all the time isn't natural either. Even nature can't make the world happy 24/7, so being unhappy occasionally is only normal. C'est la vie.

[Wolf]

I don't think that any person or group of people can provide conditions in which their birds are happy all of the time, I can't even provide those conditions for myself, and I have never met anyone else regardless of how well off or affluent they are that can provide those conditions for themselves either. If we can't provide those conditions for ourselves, I don't see that we can provide them for anyone else, whether they are human or bird or dog or cat or what.

There's nothing wrong with this. We want our birds to be happy all the time and try to replicate a natural enough environment that we can make that happen, but being happy all the time isn't natural either. Even nature can't make the world happy 24/7, so being unhappy occasionally is only normal. C'est la vie.

Thank you, that is exactly where I was hoping my post would lead others to see. I wanted them to realize this for themselves and is why I stopped when and where I did.

[Pajarita]

I don't agree. There are people who are happy all the time. I am. Most people cannot be happy all the time because they don't make themselves happy (I am not talking about people living with pain, like you do, Wolf -that's a different issue). Animals, on the other hand, are physical beings and, as such, as long as they have everything nature decreed they should have can be happy all the time. But the main part of an animal's happiness is reproducing as they are supposed to and none of our parrots is able to fulfill that need -and no, breeder birds don't either and not only because they seldom choose their mates or because of the terrible conditions they live under but also because the breeders take the babies away from them every single time, time after time, year after year. And that has to be heartbreaking for them...