A new bird-maybe

[Hookturn]

As many of you know, we recently lost our baby Jenday to diabetes. I spoke with the store where we got him and it looks like they are going to replace him. I really hope so because my daughter saved her money for a year to buy him and was so upset after he died just a couple weeks before Christmas. We also lost our dog in the same week so she couldn't understand why God would take away her animals at Christmas time. It was heartbreaking. Anyway, I have my fingers crossed that they give her another bird.

[Pajarita]

I think it's a great idea for you to get another bird but I don't know if I would trust the place where they sold me a bird with a serious genetic defect. Also, Hook (and I am not trying to make you feel bad or anything, I wasn't even going to mention it but now the situation warrants it), you all need to learn more about symptoms because JJ must have shown them for quite some time before he became so sick (he would have had excessive thirst and urine as well as lethargy).

[Hookturn]

You've asked me this same question several times and I'll answer it again. He was very active, no lethargy at all. He also had normal droppings and did not show excessive thirst. At least not until he got sick. Even then, he wasn't showing any symptoms other than weight loss until several days after he got sick. Then he did have excessive urine was lethargic and very thirsty.
You can believe my answer or not. That I can't control.

As for not trusting the same place, I agree. That's why I will have the blood work done immediately. With JJ the vet did a physical exam right after we got him. He wanted to wait for a month or so to do baseline bloodwork. This time I won't wait.

[Wolf]

But, then looking at it slightly skewed, my normal perspective, the pet store owner sounds as if he/ she didn't know that the bird had a genetic defect, feels bad about it and is trying to make it right as best as they can. If this is true then they are probably going to have a talk to the breeder if not dropping that one for one with better breeding stock and practices.
This, by no means should be taken to say that you should not take measures to protect yourself from this occurring again if it is possible to do so. But by the same token, I must in all fairness recognize when someone tries to do the right thing.

[Pajarita]

You've asked me this same question several times and I'll answer it again. He was very active, no lethargy at all. He also had normal droppings and did not show excessive thirst. At least not until he got sick. Even then, he wasn't showing any symptoms other than weight loss until several days after he got sick. Then he did have excessive urine was lethargic and very thirsty.
You can believe my answer or not. That I can't control.

As for not trusting the same place, I agree. That's why I will have the blood work done immediately. With JJ the vet did a physical exam right after we got him. He wanted to wait for a month or so to do baseline bloodwork. This time I won't wait.

Hook, it's not that I don't believe you, I do! But it's impossible that he would have such extraordinarily high glucose values from one day to the next and then die in a matter of days. When a bird dies at 5 months of age with such complete breakdown in the body functions, it's obvious that the problem was genetic and that it was there and bad from day one so there is no way there were no symptoms whatsoever. It's just not possible, Hook. I know you did not notice anything and that this wasn't because you were not paying attention - and that, most likely, the symptoms were subtle and that you, in your inexperience with birds, did not see them and only noticed when he was already very, very sick. I am not blaming you in any way but we are used to recognizing symptoms in mammals because that is what we are and birds are completely different. Again, please understand, I am not trying to make you feel bad but, if I were you, I would not get another baby. Bloodwork is necessary but, believe it or not, sick birds can have normal values and continue getting them until it's too late so I would seriously consider getting an adult rescue from a good rescue, where they vet the birds, feed well, etc. because, this way, you know you are getting a bird that already survived infancy, that has been observed by people who have a lot of experience and found to be apparently normal. This would give you a good baseline to compare in the future (things like energy level, poop, etc). I just want you to play it safe so you would not have to go through the heartache again.

[Hookturn]

You're absolutely right wolf. and in fairness to the breeder, the bird had a very rare defect. And we live in a very small town where reputation is everything and everyone knows everyone's business. This store is the "only game in town" when it comes to parrots so I'm sure that they will do the right thing. The manager is a very nice guy and felt very bad about our situation. He told me that he just needs permission from his boss before he can replace the bird. If, for some reason, they don't agree to do right thing, it will be very easy for me to put enough pressure on them to rectify the situation. I doubt it will come to that.

[Hookturn]

Pajarita- I purposefully waited for some time to respond to your post. Had I responded immediately, I likely would have just provided a profanity-laced rant that would not have benefited anyone. As cathartic as that would have been for me, particularly at the time, I thought better of it. With time to cool down I believe that I am now able to properly respond to the substance of your reply.

Let’s look at your post. According to you it’s “impossible” that my bird showed no symptoms prior to getting sick. It’s not lost on me that you use a word like “impossible” when describing the situation. Of course you know exactly what was going on with my bird, considering you've never examined him or even met him. And just to remind you, you’re not a vet.

Well my vet and several other consulting specialists don’t know exactly what caused his issues. What we do know is that his illness manifested itself acutely. It came on very quickly and progressed like lightning and ended in his death. Could it have been a tumor or some form of cancer that brought on his issues so suddenly? Yes. Could it have been that during his maturation process something went wrong that resulted in his acute illness? Yes. And so, it is not “impossible” that he showed no signs of illness from the beginning.

Quite the opposite. It is entirely possible and, in fact, that is what happened. Just because he likely had a genetic problem that caused his illness, it does not mean that he showed symptoms from day-one. It’s just silly for you to believe that just because it may have been genetic that he had to have symptoms from the day he was born. Your ignorance shows with statements like that. Many, many, genetic or other health issues don’t manifest themselves from the first day of life. Cancer, diabetes, alzheimer’s, etc.

One thing you conveniently overlooked is the speed at which this took hold of JJ. When he initially got sick, his blood glucose was elevated. After receiving a week of glipizides, his glucose continued to rise. And he died a couple days later. According to my vet this signaled a very acute type of incident for which we have no explanation. What is clear is that this happened rapidly and was not something that was evident from birth, your armchair diagnosis notwithstanding.

As you point out I am inexperienced with birds in general, but I was very experienced when it came to THIS bird. We spent 8-10 hours in very close contact everyday for months. I could sense very subtle changes in his personality, physical activity, mood, appetite, and, and, and . . . Your ridiculous statements to the effect of, “you must have missed something” glaringly reveals what many people on this forum already know: you are a complete narcissist. You know better than everyone and everyone’s vets and you often-times talk down to people in a way that should make you ashamed, but clearly doesn’t. I’ve been reading recent posts that should open your eyes regarding your complete lack of social skills and ability to impart your opinions with anything resembling compassion, or even a basic understanding of human interaction and communication.

After only a few months on this site, it is clear to me, both from my own experience and from others’ comments, that you are best known for your condescending, patronizing, and downright-rude delivery. Although I do agree with some of your opinions (and you’re full of opinions that you represent as facts), I do not respect the manner in which you impart them.

You essentially accused me of missing my bird’s symptoms, which is simply not true. I am so glad that your completely ill-informed comments were directed at me and not someone with less self confidence in the way they treated their animal friend. I am supremely confident that I did everything and more for my friend and gave him every chance to survive his ordeal. Had you directed your comments to someone not as confident, I can imagine that your comments and mistaken diagnosis could have caused them some serious emotional pain. Essentially leaving them to blame themselves for their bird's death.

You really need to do some self assessment regarding your narcissistic belief that you always know best (particularly in medical situations like mine where you have never met the bird) as well as your holier-than-though delivery.

In sum, you have no idea what happened with my bird and you should stop pretending that you do.

[Pajarita]

Hook, I know that you are still hurting and that you did your very best but a bird with those impossibly high glucose values had to have had symptoms (it's not my opinion, it's in all the avian medicine texts -things don't go so very out of whack to the point of death without a single previous sign) and it couldn't have come so suddenly because glucose levels don't spike that high from one day to the next. He was a 5 months old baby so I would say that it was a genetic defect and not anything you did. I would also say that there was nothing you or anybody else could have done. But vets don't always tell you what they know but what they know you want or need to hear, they are selling you their services. I am not and never did blame you for anything but people who never had birds don't always realize that something is a symptom... Sheesh, even people who had had multiple birds for years miss things all the time. Me included.