Stitch attacking Leroy

[liz]

Actually I do this for all of them, I just blame it all on Kiki, because she was the first bird in our lives and we did not go and get her and had no idea that she even existed until she buzzed us when we went outside one morning.

My sister gave my Amy (cockatiel) after the male flew. She laid 12 eggs that January and had labor pains with each one. She would call my mother to sit with her while she was laying an egg. I got her a Bubba so she would not be wasting her time but she didn't live until the next January so I got Sweetie for Bubba and so forth.
I never ever thought of anything bigger until my neighbor was going to sell Rambo. I had met him. He walked through the house talking like a little green kid. I just couldn't let her sell a kid.

[cml]

Update from today:

Stitch is still on his leaner diet to get back to his optimal weight. He's gone down a few percent but still has some way to go. I want him back at 190 and he's at 205 now.

I tried an old trick I know, which worked like a charm! I know the birds always get very calm after they've taken a shower, so I figured if I shower Stitch but not Leroy, and then let them out they might be more equal. It worked! Stitch was a bit calmer due to being wet, and Leroy got his confidence back and snapped (Leroy is such a sweetheart and never actually bites or attacks) against Stitch when he got too close. Stitch retreated and after that they both were very calm and Leroy was on his favorite perch in the living room, while Stitch sat on my knee while I was reading. No tendencies for aggression from either bird, but no preening today either. I will repeat this tomorrow.

Since I was giving them (and Stitch in particular) too much morning pellets, Leroy is back to his standard ration of 12pellets and Stitch will when he's back at his ideal weight get his 10pellets (he now gets 8 which is slowly lowering his weight a few grams a day). Evening meals are also a bit less than they used to be.

Feels great to have some progress, and thank you everyone for your advice and input.

Pajarita, do you think we should start making the days longer again or wait a bit?

[Pajarita]

To tell you the truth, CML, I have no scientific evidence that the 15 minute change is what makes the difference. There are studies that show that birds register differences of 20 minutes but I don't know if they just did the 20 minutes because that is the difference on the equator or because that is the minimum period of time birds actually register. But I don't think it's the latter because the reason why I've always recommended differences of 15 minutes is because this is what canary breeders have been doing for many, many years to 'speed' up the breeding season (starting the beginning of the year, they increase the light period by 15 minutes a week so the birds are ready to breed much earlier and end up with a longer season -which means a third clutch) and, in my personal experience, everything these breeders figured out through trial and error and hundreds of years of observation ended up been, eventually, confirmed by science.

Personally, I would increase or decrease 15 minutes a week (it takes two weeks for a 20 minute change in solar time so, by doing 30, you will be speeding things up considerably) but, as I said before, I doubt it will work now to dampen hormones because of the season. I think you are going to have to 'ride it out' this spring and all the way to mid-summer, monitor closely their time out of cage together and start in earnest and with timers (it's easiest if you make it a habit to change the timers 15 minutes every week -like every Sunday or something like that) when we hit the solstice.

[cml]

I am full of hope again after today, and I think and hope that I wont have to ride it out, but that they instead will be back as the best of friends and brothers soon . Leroy seemed much more confident today, and when he is, he's got the upper hand (which is good as he never does anything mean:)). Maybe he's taking a little longer than I thought to recover from their big fight and his wound. I certainly hope so, and that this isnt as big an issue as it could be! Will keep you all posted with development through out the week.

Personally, I would increase or decrease 15 minutes a week (it takes two weeks for a 20 minute change in solar time so, by doing 30, you will be speeding things up considerably) but, as I said before, I doubt it will work now to dampen hormones because of the season. I think you are going to have to 'ride it out' this spring and all the way to mid-summer, monitor closely their time out of cage together and start in earnest and with timers (it's easiest if you make it a habit to change the timers 15 minutes every week -like every Sunday or something like that) when we hit the solstice.

Alright, I will go back to doing 15min a week or so until they hit 14 hours (which will take 16 weeks, but I would prefer to let it take maybe 20 weeks). We already use timers so that wont be a problem.

[Pajarita]

Well, I see your point in thinking it would be better if it took longer but I think that keeping the seasons closer to their natural length must be better than having a super long one and a super short one (again, no scientific proof of this, just my gut feeling) because the body needs a certain number of days to get to a certain point (as in top breeding condition or molting).

And yes, bathing is a great way of distracting them! Kudos to you for figuring it out!

[cml]

Today's update is short, but positive. Short outing together today, about 30min. There was no aggression at all today, but they are not behaving quite normally yet either. They are usually brothers in crime and always up to mischief and adventure. So far they are a little more reserved still towards each other, but Leroy actually preened Stitch for about 30s. He didnt want to be preened back today though and just walked to the other side of the window sill.

[Wolf]

Well, I was hoping that with the programs that I downloaded, about 14 of them, that I would have been able to make it easier to calculate the nutrients for foods such as gloop so as to provide the right amounts for them from carbs and fiber to vitamins/ minerals and so forth. No such luck! So it is back to the drawing board for me. Well not exactly, it is more like continuing to expand on my list of foods and what they contain for what serving size and collecting the conversion formulas that I need. I see this need and am just too stupid to wait while someone else figures it out and too stubborn to give up on it. I broke my body through work, but not my brain so I may as well see if I can break my mind as well.

[Pajarita]

The only way (and the easiest) to do what you want, Wolf, is to make a perfectly measured recipe of gloop (so you know the proportions exactly and can tweak them later to increase or decrease whatever) and send a sample to be analyzed (I would use SGS -it's the one everybody uses internationally for specifications certificates in import and export) for all the nutritional values. I am always planning on doing this but life keeps on getting on the way (these tests are not cheap)...

[Wolf]

I am thinking that I know that there are databases available from the USDA and calculators already set up to do what I want. I just have to locate what I am looking for, I have found s few but they were to limited for my use.
An analysis will do fine, but I want to calculate the nutritional changes before I make the product.

[Pajarita]

You are much more ambitious than me, my friend!