My parrot only allows scratches at night? So weird...

[rrspamrr]

I have a red bellied parrot who has genuinely been scared of me for months despite my every attempt to gain his trust through treats, talking, and other friendly gestures. However, the last few days were super exciting when I found that he would finally allow me to gently pet him...at night. I found out about this weird phenomenon a few days ago when, upon waking down the stairs around 10 pm (2 hours after his bedtime) I couldn't resist the urge to take a quick peek. And so I gently moved the blanket and saw that his eyes were wide open but he didnt run away. This, by itself, was rather surprising as he always scurries to the other end cage as soon as he sees me approaching. Anyway, this uniquely friendly behavior prompted me to softly pet him. He did not resist at all and he actually closed his eyes and fell asleep while I petted him! In other words, he really seemed to enjoy it!! The following morning I was happier than ever and tried to pet him once again. This time, however, I only got a nasty bite. Over the next few days I contjnued to see if it was only an isolated incident or a general pattern. Interestingly, I found that everyday I could easily pet him at night but only get bites in the morning. Is this normal behavior? Why would he do such a thing?

[Michael]

I think this has to do with the bird dealing with conflicting behaviors. On one hand, the bird enjoys head scratches but on the other hand it is scared of you (may not even be your face, could be your hands or human presence). The good news is, that with proper training, the bird should be pretty cuddly and enjoy this from you. The bad news is that you are going about it all wrong by forcing this upon the bird the way you are. If you train the bird to be comfortable with your presence, hands, and touch, then the bird will actually trust you to give it head scratches any time of day and more. Jumping through the kind of hoops you are to hide yourself to touch the bird does not make the bird like you one bit more. Most likely, since it is dark, it just doesn't realize where the pleasant touching is coming from but it doesn't resist. You get no credit for this and the bird does not bond to you one bit more since it isn't realizing it is coming from you. If it realized it was you, it would get scared and bite. This is why proper training is the only reasonable solution.

[Pajarita]

Well, I think that getting the credit for the good feeling or not is not the only goal one should have when doing something that benefits the bird. But I do agree that it would be better if he accepted scratches all the time (better for him and more rewarding for you). I have no experience with male redbellies and very little with females as I have only one so my advice is not as reliable as it could be. My female redbelly is not a cuddly bird. She doesn't ever bite, she likes people, she doesn't scream or pluck, she doesn't destroy things, she goes back into her cage of her own, and she actually asks for head scratches all the time -she flies to stand in front of me, preferably higher than my head so she can either gently pull my headband off or my hair and, once she gets my attention, twists her head sideways and looking at me with the eye that points upwards, she scratches her head with her own foot like saying: "This is what I want you to do"- so, although she is most definitely not a 'cuddly' bird, she is pretty perfect for a parrot IMO!

I also don't think that been cuddly is a characteristic of redbellies because I personally know of three people who have males and every single one of them is what we call a 'hands-off' bird (no step up to hand, no scratches, nothing) and there was a member here that complained about her bird's aggression. Plus, I've also been seen a number of them showing up in rescues lately even though they are not been bred as much as other species which could be due to this non-cuddliness of theirs.

[Wolf]

I don't have any of this species of parrot and understand that they are different than the closest that I do have to their species, a Senegal. I would, however like to have more information on this bird, such as how old it is, was it a rehome or rescue or was it purchased from a pet store or breeder. I would also like to know how long you have had it as well as a more in depth run down of your efforts to tame the bird through treats, talking and other friendly gestures. I will do my best to help you with this.
You are aware, I hope that although they will usually accept some personal attention that some birds just don't like to be touched or handled very much.

[rrspamrr]

@Michael I've seen many of your youtube videos with kili the Senegal parrot and I just wanted to say that you are essentially the reason why I choose the parrot that I did. I learned that red-bellies are close relatives of the Senegals and after watching your videos I couldn't help but fall in love with the entire poi family!

Now, I would like to mention that I wasn't exactly in the dark when these incidents occurred. Perhaps the lighting was a bit dim, but certainly not so low-light as to prevent him from making out my face... This is exactly why I found it so weird! Also, I usually try not to force myself upon him in anyway and instead take the indirect approach of bonding with him through treats (his favorites are peanuts and sunflower seeds, which he loves to take from my hands), gently speaking to him, and offering as much of my free time as possible. In fact, that night was the first time I touched any part of him at all (except his beak, of course!).

In any case, could you please expand on the type of "reasonable training" I should pursue? For example, what did you do to get your Senegal comfortable with you in the beginning?

@Pajarita
The news of your female red bellied is certainly encouraging but sadly I have a male and he might just be a "hands off" like you mentioned. I sincerely hope this is not the case with my bird, but you could be right. As for the people you personally know who had bad experiences with this species, how long have they had this bird? Maybe they just haven't had them for long enough to gain their trust!

@Wolf
He was adopted from a rescue and is only 2 years old. So far I have tried to give him sunflower seeds and peanuts along with other fruits and veggies, which he does accept at times. I also read to him and talk to him whenever I get the chance. He does seem to enjoy these things but when I put my hand in his cage for any reason (such as changing the food and water) he gets really scared. It's already been two months and I'm not sure if he'll ever change.

[Wolf]

Two months to this species of parrot is as nothing, he is just beginning to acclimate to his new environment and to this we don't know what type of treatment he had received prior to being sent to the rescue and we must also consider that he is in all likelihood just entering puberty at his age which means that he is probably hormonal at this time.
You answered that you talk and read to him whenever you get the chance to do so. How often is this on a daily basis and does this occur on any regular time table, meaning at say 10 am and again at 1 pm and say again around 4 pm? Also if so how long of a time period are we speaking of?
What type of schedule do you have? I am trying to find out what time frames we have available to spend working with your bird so that I can recommend a course of action. Sorry if it seems like I am being nosey, but I really am just trying to get a baseline of when you can interact with him.

[liz]

I think that the petting at night is tolerated only because he is in a comfortable sleeping position and doesn't want to bother with moving. He may be really annoyed by it.

Don't push. He now knows what it feels like and when he is ready he will offer his head for scratches. My BF Amazon, Myrtle, just started offering the top of her head for scratches and I have had her 4 years now.

Up to this time she had become very bonded and would even flip belly up for foot fights.
It took 4 years for her to get over the one year she was with her previous owner.

[rrspamrr]

@Wolf

I think you're absolutely right. Two months is not enough for such a bird, especially given that his past may not have gone so well. But do you know of the exact years of puberty for his species? I voiced my concerns about this topic to the rescue personnel and they said he went through puberty a while ago and that I have nothing to worry about in that respect...

As for your questions, you're not being nosy at all! In fact, I have to thank you for being so kind and offering your assistance. There is usually no regular time period when I read/talk to him as I only do so when he calms down and feels really comfertable in my presence (in other words, not very often). The sessions, when they do occur, last around 30-45 minutes. I should mention that I am not home from 7:00 to 4:30 due to work and once home it usually take an hour or so to finish various errands, after which I allocate a few solid hours to bond with the bird. What I am trying to learn through this forum is how I should use these few precious hours I have with him to transform him into a loving parrot!


@Liz

Indeed. That seems like the only plausible answer at the moment!

As for your bird, I must say that I am very, very surprised! When I first adopted a bird, I never once thought it could take months to gain its trust, let alone years! Kudos to you for having such imperturbable patience, as I could never get myself wait that long

[liz]

Scratching her head was the only thing she did not allow. She was the one who would initiate play.
My Amazons are not caged. Rambo was raised with the cage door open. When I got him I took the door off so he would not perch and poop on the floor. Myrtle first year of life was a really dark experience. When I got her home I opened her cage door and never closed it again. She was so afraid of cages that she slept in a paper grocery bag on top of her cage.

As Wolf and Pajarita will tell you, we will wait as long as it takes and be grateful for any small improvement with our rescues.

[Wolf]

According to my information they are almost identical to the Senegal in this respect, in that they have their mature feathers at 1 yr. of age, the female reaches sexual maturity usually at about 2 yr. of age and the male taking up to 3 years before reaching sexual maturity.
I figured that you were a working class person and that might be limiting your time severely especially at this time of year with its short days. I am aware that morning are probably not the best time for you to interact with him but if you could squeeze in about 10 to 15 minutes in the morning and then one more session like it in the evenings on working days. And then up it to 3 sessions on your days off, I think that we can improve your progress with him substantially.
I think I would like for you to start all over from scratch, as if you have just gotten him. This should not be much of a hardship for you as he is still a frightened little bird as is shown by him retreating to the other side of his cage when he sees you. I would that I had more information than I currently have but I will ask more questions as we go along, but lets get the two of you started off and see if we can turn this around a bit. When you first enter the room that he is in stop and look at him using your peripherial vision as you do not want to look at him directly at this time. That is the way that a predator would look at him and will only serve to scare him further. I want you to notice his posture, things like if he is perched upright or if his body is more horizontal, notice his feathers and the way that they lie on his body especially if the appear to be relaxed and slightly fluffy or if they are held tightly to his body making him appear skinnier. These things are a part of his body language and you need to learn this and what they mean. While you are doing this you should start talking to him and telling him what a good and wonderful bird he is. Tell him how much you care about him and how much you want to be his friend and what a good bird he is. Slowly begin to approach his cage on a diagonal, like two steps to the side for every step closer. As soon as he starts to get nervous and move about stop and continue talking to him and letting him know what a good bird he is and how much you care about him, when he relaxes again move towards him again, stopping every time that he starts to get nervous, and approaching only while he is relaxed. At the end of 10 minutes whether you made it to the cage or not say good bye and leave him.
With what you have told me I am expecting that it may take a few days to get to his cage during these sessions. Just do your best as far as the normal feeding and cleaning of his cage, but talk to him while you do these things and let him know what you are doing. If you can do so watch what he eats and in what order as this will tell us which foods he likes best of what he gets. So now it is time for more questions. What exactly do you feed him and when do you feed it to him? How big is his cage and where is it placed? Can you post any pictures of his cage? If you have pictures but can't post them let me know and I will give you my e mail so you can send them to me and I will post them for you. Is his cage place where he can see and be a part of what is going on or is it placed where things are quieter and away from what is going on in your house? Do you leave a radio on for him while you are at work or otherwise gone? Does he have any toys in his cage and if so what kind of toys are they? Are his wings clipped or not? does he get any time out of his cage at this time? What is his name? Is his cage covered at night or not?