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The Parrot Pyramid

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The Parrot Pyramid

Postby entrancedbymyGCC » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:02 pm

Hi all,

This came up in another discussion on the forum, and Michael encouraged me to further develop the idea and post it here. It's a pyramid type diagram sort of like the food pyramid (the old one anyway) that captures my impression of the "needs" of the pet parrot in a hierarchical way with the size of the "slice" and its proximity to the base indicating its relative importance. I'm interested to see if others agree that these are the priorities and if I've left anything off. The idea is to encourage discussion -- I just made the diagram because I think it captures the idea more concisely than trying to explain it in text. Here 'tis:

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Re: The Parrot Pyramid

Postby Michael » Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:42 pm

Not quite sure what I think of this but off the bat I have a feeling that flight is underplayed.

In the wild, I would think that flight would be at the bottom of the pyramid because flight leads to safety, food, interaction, etc. Flight is a means to achieving things. Also flight provides significantly better exercise (compare the exercise of running your fingers on a keyboard or running outside). The other points look fairly sound.

I understand that flight doesn't apply the same way at home as it would in the wild but mentally I think that would mess a parrot up. On one hand it feels a natural need to fly around and do the things parrots do and on the other hand it can't and doesn't need to. That's got to lead to some psychological problems.
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Re: The Parrot Pyramid

Postby entrancedbymyGCC » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:33 pm

It's definitely a "captive" parrot pyramid. But aside from your point about survival in the wild being linked to flight, why would you put fulfilling the urge to reproduce at a much lower level than flight from a psychological standpoint? It is, after all, a fundamental need, no?
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Re: The Parrot Pyramid

Postby Michael » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:31 pm

It absolutely is but it's more of a lifetime deal. It only happens a few times and it depends on food, security, survival, social interaction, flight, etc... So I don't disagree with you that mating is at the top of the pyramid.

I also understand why you would not put flight as a critical component in your captive pyramid. In the wild, flight is at or practically at the bottom of the pyramid. A parrot that can't fly (perhaps only with exception of the kakapo), is a dead parrot. I agree that in the house, the parrot can achieve most or all of its needs without flight which would make it tempting to put flight at the top. However, with something so fundamental to survival, how can there not be a stronger internal need for flight. This is all speculation here as it is impossible to get inside a parrot's head and ask it how important flight is to its well being, however, from the wilderness analogy, I suspect that it is very high. I think they have an innate drive to explore. This is obvious in a clipped parrot but even more obvious in a flighted one. They constantly move around checking things out, beaking them, breaking them, etc. It's a natural drive to find food and nesting sites. I think without the ability to fly to be able to do this, they would feel deprived of fulfilling some of their natural desires. Certainly we cannot accommodate all of them, however, I think this one is one we must accommodate as it is what makes them a bird.

I can only speculate what a clipped parrot would feel like but I could imagine it would be like a human immobilized of their legs for whatever reason. They can sit in bed or couch all day and have all their needs provided for. But would they not miss walking? Even if they were born without the ability to walk. Would they not miss it?

Besides my comparison to parrots in the wild, I just look at my own parrot to understand how important flight must be to their psychological well being. She had been clipped initially and now she is flighted. It has been roughly the same amount of time that she was clipped as she has been flighted so I think it is a fair comparison of before and after. I've just noticed so much improvement in her since she has been flighted. Instead of screeching and screaming when I walk to another part of the house, she just flies over and follows along to watch. If she wants to play with something in a different area, she flies herself over. If she is tired and needs a break, she can fly back to her cage. If she misses me, she can fly over to me (yes all of this only applies during time she spends out of the cage but we're comparing flight vs clipped rather than caged vs not which is a whole other beast). Also she feels more secure. She goes on places she hadn't gone before, she bites people less, she just seems more at ease with things this way. When I took her out just now, I put her on her climbing tree. Just right now she flew over and landed on my leg cause she wants to spend time with me. This would not have been a choice if she were clipped. She would have just been sitting on the tree depressed she couldn't come to me right now when she wanted to if she were clipped. Parrot calls so I gotta go now, but I think you get the picture.
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Re: The Parrot Pyramid

Postby oknuma » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:58 pm

i actually agree with the pyramid.

I see where Michael is coming from regarding flight and think that his point is very fair but dont necessarily agree with it myself.

The example of a bird on its playstand all depressed doesnt ring true for me. When batman came to us her wings and rear end were eaten off. Her cage was set up with ladders to the ground etc so that she could get to where she wanted to be. A flighted bird doesnt have to be a miserable one and although I personally believe flight is important I dont give it any more weighting then nutrition and environment and mental stimulation
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Re: The Parrot Pyramid

Postby Michael » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:07 pm

Ok, but how much mental stimulation do you think flight provides? Obviously there is no way of directly comparing flight to playing with a toy, but certainly flight provides a significantly higher level of mental stimulation/enrichment than practically any other activity?

In my opinion if we were to rank mental stimulation would be something like this:

#7 Eating interestingly shaped foods
#6 Watching household activities
#5 Monkeying around in cage
#4 Playing with toys
#3 Vocalization
#2 Trick training
#1 Flight
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Re: The Parrot Pyramid

Postby oknuma » Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:29 pm

Michael wrote:Ok, but how much mental stimulation do you think flight provides? Obviously there is no way of directly comparing flight to playing with a toy, but certainly flight provides a significantly higher level of mental stimulation/enrichment than practically any other activity?

In my opinion if we were to rank mental stimulation would be something like this:

#7 Eating interestingly shaped foods
#6 Watching household activities
#5 Monkeying around in cage
#4 Playing with toys
#3 Vocalization
#2 Trick training
#1 Flight


i cant argue with you on that one. I would think that flying is the top of the mental stimulation pile but I also think without flying there are many other possibilites as listed above to keep a bird stimulated/enriched. If you take the other options away however and a bird has flight only but not the other suggestions then I would think you would have a pretty unhealthy, unhappy and bored birdie on your hands.
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Re: The Parrot Pyramid

Postby entrancedbymyGCC » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:36 pm

I think from the perspective of this pyramid we should look at the part labeled "flight" at the top as referring to the act of flight itself and the benefits it brings to the bird that no other source can provide. I totally agree that flight CAN provide a large amount of mental stimulation and that in the wild a parrot uses flight to meet a large fraction of the needs in the lower parts of the pyramid. However, I think those needs are needs in their own right, separate from the need for flight, and that they can be met by means other than flight. Certainly we can find examples of pet parrots that have lived for many decades in a clipped state and which were not observed to be overtly miserable. How do we measure the level of happiness of a parrot? When I look at Scooter I look at his behaviors to gauge his "happiness" -- is he eating, sleeping, playing? Is he eager for interaction? Is he free from screaming, plucking or other undesirable behaviors? Are there other metrics we should use to judge how much happier a bird might be if allowed indoor flight? And how much happier that same bird would be if allowed complete freedom to live a natural life with unrestricted flight outdoors? How can we judge this without anthropomorphizing or projecting our own needs and desires onto the bird?

Michael put it this way:

Michael wrote: This is all speculation here as it is impossible to get inside a parrot's head and ask it how important flight is to its well being,


And this I agree with. However, I think there are indicators besides trying to figure out how to think like a bird that give us a clue as to how well they are doing. Since I'm a scientist by training, I need to see EVIDENCE that allowing flight produces a much happier and healthier bird in order to be convinced that it is a fact.

I think without the ability to fly to be able to do this, they would feel deprived of fulfilling some of their natural desires.
I think what you are saying is that if you imagine yourself a bird, you imagine feeling that way -- but you aren't a bird. So it makes you feel better to provide flight, but it doesn't create proof that flight is superior. I don't think we can really nail this down as a gedanken experiment because none of us really know how to think like a bird.

One thing that plays into all of this is that a hand-raised parrot is about as far from the natural state of the animal as any creature we keep as companions. Dogs, cats and horses all have more connection to their "roots" unless they are bottle raised orphans. I would also guess that we are in the process of selectively breeding birds that are relatively happy in these circumstances because very unhappy birds don't mate and reproduce.

, I think this one is one we must accommodate as it is what makes them a bird.


You have stated this on other threads and I think it is one place where we have a fundamental disagreement. I don't agree that flight is what makes a bird a bird. There are species of birds that aren't flighted at all. There are so many things that make a bird a bird besides flight -- their social natures, their vocal communications, their grooming behaviors, their problem-solving abilities -- these may or may not have evolved partly due to flight, but they now exist whether flight is present or not.

I can only speculate what a clipped parrot would feel like but I could imagine it would be like a human immobilized of their legs for whatever reason. They can sit in bed or couch all day and have all their needs provided for. But would they not miss walking? Even if they were born without the ability to walk. Would they not miss it?


Not necessarily. I actually hold a therapeutic horseback riding instructor's certification and I have worked with disabled children in that capacity (on a volunteer basis). It really completely depends on the individual. The one adult I worked with who was in the program pursuant to a traumatic brain injury at work which affected both his locomotion and cognitive/emotional state was in stark contrast to most of the other students -- he did resent his immobility, but it was something he had his whole life and he was bitter. Most of the kids, even those who are cognitively normal, pretty much roll with the cards they have been dealt. At least until they get to a certain age. You have to have a concept that the world owes you the ability to walk before you can resent the inability. A two or three or even six year old child typically doesn't formulate this kind of resentment, so even if you imagine a parrot as being a soft of small feathered three year old, I don't think it would have the dubious mental sophistication to think it "ought" to be able to fly and to therefore stew over it. A bird that has been flighted that is then deprived of flight might express frustration if it's unmet needs could be met by flying at a given moment, but I think that is different.

I also think that most humans deprived of the ability to walk would spend some time mourning that loss, but if they are mentally healthy and have the emotional support they need, they will move past that and not lie around waiting for their needs to be met. They will learn to use prostheses or a wheelchair and they will figure out how to adapt their behavior so that they can meet their needs. There were plenty of wheelchair athletes in the LA marathon this weekend, for example. MY gross speculation is that a clipped parrot would move straight on to figuring out how to get its needs met rather than lying around and stewing about it.


Besides my comparison to parrots in the wild, I just look at my own parrot to understand how important flight must be to their psychological well being. She had been clipped initially and now she is flighted. It has been roughly the same amount of time that she was clipped as she has been flighted so I think it is a fair comparison of before and after.


This is good anecdotal evidence. We are all biased observers observing our own feathered companions, though, so it would be even more compelling to me if an unbiased observer reported the same things. With my own bird, it seems to me that if he got any MORE secure, he'd be running the household! Yes he sometimes wants to be somewhere he isn't that it is difficult (or too dangerous) for him to get to on his own, but within reason we accommodate that when he's out of cage.

So I guess I remain unconvinced that the benefits of flight in and of itself in the well-kept pet parrot are so dominant that they warrant compromising on the items lower in the pyramid as I have drawn it -- or even compromising on the ability of the humans to coexist with the parrot beyond a certain point. If one can arrange for all those things to be covered AND allow flight, too, that's great. But I think it may do many pet parrots a disservice to strongly emphasize flight because I think other needs, including safety and having a human to provide the other items, are going to be much harder to meet. I suppose eventually all the unwanted parrots would die out and the market would adjust, but that seems a bit harsh, they are rather long-lived.
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Re: The Parrot Pyramid

Postby MandyG » Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:05 pm

What an excellent way of putting it entranced! I have to say I fully agree with your last post.

I tend to order things in my pyramid in order of 'if one of these things were taken away, how much of an effect would it have on the bird's health and wellbeing'. I like the way your pyramid is, but I'm tempted to switch the 'Freedom from hazards, etc.' with the Mental Needs and Social and Physical Needs. That may be because I'm reading it differently than you mean. If the 'Freedom from hazards, etc.' means that the bird feels comfortable, safe, and secure in it's environment then I fully agree with your pyramid. Just when I read your description it makes me think of hazards, health care, etc. from the person's point of view, ie what we view as hazards, not necessarily what the bird views as a hazard.

Could you clarify how you're intending it?
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Re: The Parrot Pyramid

Postby PRD » Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:09 pm

I don't agree that flight is what makes a bird a bird. There are species of birds that aren't flighted at all.


Those species of birds who arnt flighted, were they flying at 1 stage in their existence? And they all became non flyers over 1 day? It takes ages to evoluate. Maybe their conditions/environment have changed that much that they had to adapt to survive. Parrots fly because they have evolved to specialist in flying.
A parrots brain is designed to multitask under physical conditions which would make most of us loose concious, in flight while being pursuit by a predator in the rain. Every inch of their body is to perform optimal under those circumstances. There are birds who sleep while flying. Just as we have our limitations like, so do they. Changing their body will result in negative consequentes for the bird.
Taking flight needs special rules. They understand those rules and can play that game. In my opinion teaching trick to a non flighted parrot is fun for the owner. U think he is having fun but he can perform tasks FAR more complicated than that.
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