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Sudden African Grey biting

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Re: Sudden African Grey biting

Postby Dharmaserf » Sat Aug 13, 2016 8:48 pm

Thanks again, btw.
Dharmaserf
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Re: Sudden African Grey biting

Postby Dharmaserf » Sat Aug 13, 2016 9:14 pm

Wow. I may have to stop posting and sorry for the spam, but now I'm leaning towards hormones again. He's just inconsolable. Normally when he's in his cage for a while when he wants out he just chills out eventually and naps or eats. All days he's just been on edge, needing lots of attention. But now, I put parrot videos on the computer and he's super chill and even purring (beak grinding). He's still sitting in a non-relaxed pose but at least it's something. Wow. It was like a 90 degree shift.

OK. Aside from that, there is soooo much contradictory information on the Internet. I just looked up gloves. Two completely opposite opinions from equally credentialed sources. Rediculous. It's apparent that bird knowledge is still in its infancy.
Dharmaserf
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Re: Sudden African Grey biting

Postby Wolf » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:16 am

Actual bird studies only started with parrots about 20 to 25 years ago, so yes it is very much in its infancy and the apparent contradictions are caused by the differences in what we have learned in the past 20 years and what was the norm for them before there were any studies done. Typical old information vs New information.

Yes, I am mostly of the opinion that the primary reason for this behavior is hormones. But it does not hurt to pay close attention to see what other factors come into play. It seems to me that it is almost never just one thing with parrots behaviors.
Wolf
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Re: Sudden African Grey biting

Postby Pajarita » Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:13 am

Thank you for the clarification! Your been in Canada makes things easier with the range of foods you can get for him.

With the diet (seeds and human food) and the light schedule (sleeping 10 hours a night) he has had for the last five years, he cannot be anything but overly hormonal and, although I think his aggression is mostly due to it, I still think that the fact that your partner has been absent for weeks and your change in the routines he was used to had also a lot to do with his biting you.

Fruits are not that high in carbs when you consider the amount of water and fiber they have, that's why the best indicator is not so much the number of calories of any food but its glycemic index. But, in any case, parrots were meant to eat fruits and they metabolize fructose (the source of carbs in them) much better than we do so, unless we are talking about a fruit that is super high in sugar which should not be given every day, they are fine for them.... at least, that has been my personal experience with parrots because none of mine are overweight.

I am not sure if you were asking me or exactly what you were referring to but if your question is about the 'strict' solar schedule, yes, it needs to be strict and that means full exposure to dawn and dusk without any artificial lights and sleep when night falls naturally. It's the only way you can keep them from producing sexual hormones off-season because we can't do the food or weather that nature also uses as triggers to start or stop production. I also like to use a good quality full spectrum light for during the daylight hours because it helps them produce the happy and reward hormones (which put them in a good mood :D ).

Personally, I suggest you consider putting him on a strict solar schedule because even when your partner comes back, making the bird happy by it, if you don't, he will continue to produce sexual hormones and suffer chronic pain in the process. An animal in pain is an animal that, sooner or later, will become unpredictable... they can't help it.

I also suggest you consider changing his diet because, unless you are providing him with avian vitamins in his water or sprinkled on his food regularly or exposing him regularly to direct sunlight and making sure he is eating a LARGE range of produce, he is going to develop nutritional deficiencies.

As to switching him to a better diet, cold turkey is not going to work. Parrots are not instinctual eaters so your leaving food he does not identify as food in his bowl expecting him to realize this is, indeed, food is not recommended because it doesn't work. Parrots are highly altricial birds that need to learn what is food and what is not from their parents, they are not adventurous at all when it comes to food, they only eat what they are used to eating so it takes a long time to convince an adult bird that something that he has never tried before is good to eat. Besides, birds all have a very fast metabolism and need to eat twice a day... they can go without food for a number of days but, eventually, you will have to give him his seeds or he will starve to death. Easy does it with them and persistence, as well as experimentation on the way or where the food is presented is key but what works the best is for you to take the high protein food out of his cage after he eats his dinner and goes to sleep and, in the morning, about one hour after dawn, eat breakfast with him (HIS breakfast, not yours). Fruits usually work best and, for grays, I have found that juicy ones are a favorite. Try watermelon, cantaloupe or apples (they all seem to like those) and, for veggies, try fresh corn on the cob lightly steamed (I don't know of a single bird that having tried it has not made it its favorite). I feed all my parrots gloop (and they all came to me eating something else and were transitioned to it without a problem) and raw produce for breakfast and a good quality seed/nut mix for dinner (my grays get mostly nuts and very little seed). If you are interested, there are several recipes of it (and other stuff) in the diet section.

Mind you, none of these things are going to work immediately. It takes months for an out-of-whack endocrine system to go back on track and, even when they stop producing sexual hormones, they still have them in their bloodstream but this is actually a great time of the year to start a solar schedule when you have an overly hormonal parrot because the days are still long (as they are used to) but they are getting shorter naturally (which is what makes them stop producing sexual hormones).

Ah, one more thing, I don't know if this is so for all males but, in my personal experience, the ones that make a nest when alone are females, males only do it when they have a female.

As to interacting with him now, I would spend as much time with him as I could trying my best to reproduce the same exact routine he used to have when your partner was home but, for now, I would use a stick to move him from one place to the other instead of my hand (you don't want him to get used to biting you). I would not use gloves... I know that lots of people say they work but, in my personal experience, parrots hate them.
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Re: Sudden African Grey biting

Postby Dharmaserf » Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:43 pm

Hi Pajarita,

Thanks for your reply! You have lots of great info and ideas for me. The sunlight diet is tricky because it's summer here. And I'm a night owl. Hah. So, it will take a while to switch my owl schedule. I'm trying to think of the fruits he likes. I'll figure it out.

So, yesterday he was in the cage all day and had two really long dark sleeps. Yesterday I gave him consistent attention. Well, lo and behold, this morning, with his regular wake up routine, and so far two hours into his schedule, no bites. I did notice my heart just racing the first few times. Trauma!!! Hehe. I'll keep you updated. Thanks for all the help!
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Re: Sudden African Grey biting

Postby Pajarita » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:42 am

I am happy that, at least for one day, he gave you a break! But, if I were you, I would not expect the 'lucky streak' to continue. If there is one thing I have learned with parrots is that everything with them is two steps forward, one step back, two steps forward, two back, two forward, one back, etc so improvement is ALWAYS so slow that most people simply give up not realizing that this is, indeed, the normal 'state of affairs' for them :D

So, think what schedule would work out for both of you carefully and, once you start with it, keep on it even if it looks that is not working because, somewhere, in the most recondite place inside his brain, there is a little seed of change growing...
Pajarita
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Re: Sudden African Grey biting

Postby Dharmaserf » Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:03 pm

So, to update...

We are mostly back to a normal Delta. He tried to get me once on the hand, but I did the thing that I saw on that video I posted earlier, which was to raise my other hand up above him and like hover it there to distract. I can tell he is feeling better and wants back on the old habits. He sat on my knee for a couple hours on the couch and beside me while I video gamed. I've been introducing many new fruits and veggies. He is always mr. picky about the food at first, but tonight I saw him sneaking pineapple I gave him earlier that he turned his beak up at. hehe.

It won't really go back to normal for a while though, because my partner is gone and work is picking up quite a lot. I'm usually more flexible, but now I have to be out of the house a lot and there is no one else there. So, hopefully things will be fine. I'm sure they will... Just the process of me researching everything bird related for a few days I think has helped. Having him in the cage one full day while giving him lots of attention and then slowly letting him come out and do things like normal seems to have worked. Though I actually bet it was the two long sleeps too.

Anyway, thanks!
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Re: Sudden African Grey biting

Postby Wolf » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:33 am

Parrots are funny, they just like humans are so individualistic that it is difficult to say what will work with any one of them as what helps one will not work with another one or only help a little, so it is always somewhat of a guessing game.

One thing however is always a certainty and that if a bird is an adult and has been living under human light schedules for a couple of years or longer, then it is normally hormonal although it may take a few years for the effects to build up enough for the parrot to no longer be able to hide it. Right at first they may get aggressive and then as the hormone level decreases so does the aggression, but then because the level of hormones does not drop all they way back to normal levels the bird will remain slightly more aggressive than before. Since the build up is slow, it is usually overlooked. I would suggest that you have your bird checked out as I believe that their is a hormonal issue going on and it takes time to correct it.
Wolf
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Re: Sudden African Grey biting

Postby Pajarita » Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:57 am

Well, not that I am telling you to do any different but the reason why the 'hovering hand' works to distract them is that they get the impression that there is a predator looming over them and they freeze in reaction... I use something similar to that but only AFTER I have been bit (which is different because it's not predation but retaliation and the same reaction a bird would get from another strong one that gets bit so, in a way, I am 'talking their language').
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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