Trained Parrot BlogParrot Wizard Online Parrot Toy StoreThe Parrot Forum

DYH Amazon Questions

Chat about general parrot care and parrot owner lifestyle. Bird psychology, activities, trimming, clipping, breeding etc.

DYH Amazon Questions

Postby RodRay » Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:15 am

Hello!

This is my first post and I thought might ask you all several questions that I cannot seem to find the answers to.

Brief history: I recently started living with my girlfriend and her DYH Amazon, Boni. :amazon: She is about 8 years old and confirmed to be female. Boni has a very picky nature, as she only prefers certain food, toys, hangout spots, etc. She is very energetic, bilingual, adventurous, and is potty trained. She is pretty much our lil Diva :lol:

My girlfriend has owned her since Boni was young, but now Boni has quickly bonded with me. Boni used to love going on my girlfriend, but now Boni randomly bites my girlfriend especially when I am nearby. It is to the point where my gf is afraid to pick up Boni to play with her. :cry: My gf now only gives her head scratches angled from above the beak.

She is out of her cage most of the time - we only lock her in her cage if she needs to sleep or we are out of the house. We feed her pellets and occasionally different types of fruits such as mangoes, bananas etc. I also read online that Parrots' light needs to be regulated, so we introduced putting a blanket over her cage at night starting around 8pm. Boni yells at us if there is too much light and past her "bed time."


I do have several questions as I am a worried parrot parent!

1) Boni is plucking out only her white feathers but keeps her green feathers. I was thinking she was only molting, but Boni plucks them to the point where it seems like she is hurting herself. She grunts a bit in pain. My GF says this a new behavior. Is this because of her hormones? Infection? or is this simply molting?

2) How can I get Boni to like my girlfriend again?! My gf pets her everyday, but Boni just bites her VERY hard and seems randomly aggressive towards her. Should I reduce the time I spend with her?

3) She loves going down her cage and walking to the bathroom when my gf is in there. She either tries to get in the cabinets or tries to attack my gf. Should I absolutely prevent Boni from going down from her cage?

4) Should I continue putting the blanket over her cage every night? Should I let her sleep out of her cage?

5) Should I invest in a perch? Her favorite hangout spot seems to be on a specific kitchen chair. Maybe she would like to be on a branch instead?


All-in-all, Boni is an extremely well-behaved parrot - just not when my gf is around! I may not have been in my parrot's life that long, but she has quickly became like a daughter to me and I love her very much!

Thank you for taking the time to read my post! :amazon:
RodRay
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 2
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: DYH Amazon
Flight: No

Re: DYH Amazon Questions

Postby Wolf » Sat Sep 03, 2016 8:05 pm

Welcome to the forum ! I apologise for not answering this post this morning when I first read it, I was hoping that one of the more experienced members would have seen it and responded as although I do a lot of reading and have a variety of birds, my experience with Amazons is limited to the one Yellow-Naped Amazon hen that I have. She came to me after about 14 years of abusive treatment so nothing about her is all that typical. But I will do my best to help you.

I think that it is wonderful that Boni decided to accept you the way that she did, although I am somewhat surprised that she decided to mate bond with you after 8 years with your GF. That, in my opinion may be unusual as I would have expected no more than Boni accepting you as a flock member so quickly. Had Boni been between the ages of 2 yrs. and say 5 or 6 yrs. I would have considered this to not only be normal but would have pretty much expected it as well. The reason for this is that parrots are born totally helpless and dependent upon their parents, so due to the trick that breeders use to get them to imprint on humans, they will bond to humans in much the same way that they do with their actual parents, but this initial bond is a dependency type of bond and is intended by nature to be temporary. This bond is normally released when the bird goes through puberty, at which time they also move out of the nest and sort of in with the other juvenile birds in the flock and this is when they start looking for a mate to bond with, having released the dependency bond with their parents. They are not fully mature until about 5 or 6 years of age.

Since Boni was born in captivity all of these thing are still in effect and the bird goes through the exact same processes that it would in the wild. The first bond with your GF was the same dependency bond that Boni would have had with her actual parents, so in essence Boni bonded with your GF as her parent, this bond was released when Boni went through puberty, but as there was no one else available she rebounded with her and this was the long lasting mate bond.

Now you came along and I would have expected Boni to remain mate bonded with your GF, but that is not what happened, instead Boni released her bong and mate bonded with you. This does not mean that she will remain bonded to you either as she may well revert to rebonding with your GF. In this type of situation, no one knows why the bird changes its alliengences or it the bird will not switch again, this is something that only Boni knows anything about, it is after all her choice.

Lets try to look at the current situation from Boni's perspective, or as close as I am able to get to it as it may help to understand what is currently happening. Boni is now mate bonded with you and parrot, including Amazons tend to be one person birds, this is because they are monogamous when bonded, they may choose another mate but they don't mate bond to more than one person at a time. Actually some species do but not Amazons. Boni is a jealous bird and is going to defend both her mate and her rights to her mate. If she sees you and your GF hugging or making other physical contact she is going to respond aggressively towards your GF to protect her rights to you. This is why Boni is attacking her. The only thing that you should do about this is to not have physical contact with each other in Boni's presence or the attacks will continue and perhaps increase in both frequency and in severity. This can also get you bitten, because if Boni can not get to your GF to run her off/ away from you, then she may attack and bite you in an attempt to get you to move away from your GF and devote your time to her. This is basically what is happening.

In the last paragraph of the history part of your post you bring up two things diet and light schedule So lets look at them. Both of these things can affect your birds behaviors, especially when it comes to the birds reproductive cycles and their level of aggressiveness.

The first part of this should be a brief look at lighting as this is the first of the primary triggers for Boni's mating drive and cycles. Parrots are photoperiodic ( you should do some research on parrots and photoperiod), this simply means that birds are affected by light. Light is what causes the internal biological clock to tell the endocrine system when to start and stop producing sexual hormones. It also controls the timing for molting. The internal biological clock is set and reset by the specific light that is found during the two twilight periods that occur at dawn and dusk. These two twilight periods work together sort of like an on and off button on a stop watch enabling it to measure the length of the day and night to within 15 to 20 minutes. It is essential to your birds health that the bird is exposed to both of these twilight periods daily without any interference from artificial lighting. That is the basics that you need to know about light. There is more to it than just that, such as when your bird has gone to roost by full dark that the bird not be disturbed by any artificial lighting while trying to sleep, but that is the basics.

Diet is a whole thing in itself, as far as reproduction and aggressiveness goes the basics are that the levels of protein, fats and carbs in the daily diet are one of the primary triggers for reproduction ( along with lighting). The hormones related to reproduction are made of protein so if the level of protein is maintained at too high of a level then the endocrine system continues to produce these hormones and the birds level of aggression ( primarily used for protecting its mate, offspring and nesting area) remain higher than normal.

Of course the birds daily diet does far more than just what I have shared but you do need to be aware of the above effects of their diet for how it affects the birds behavior. A high quality diet is also important to the birds over all health and well being, just exactly as it is in our lives. Too much of any one nutrient or vitamin/ mineral can be just as bad for your birds health as too little. Each nutrient of vitamin/ mineral affects the next one and how it is absorbed and utilized in the birds body. There are over 350 different species of parrot and some of them have very specialized diets. Some parrots live mostly on nectars, some parrots eat meats, but most of them eat diets that are mostly fruits and vegetables. Amazons eat mostly fruits.

This is only meant as basic information, but feel free to ask for more detailed information. So what I am going to do is share with you what the daily diet is that I feed my parrots, including my Amazon. I must say right off that I do not feed any of my birds pellets, I feed a quality seed mix for my parrots based on their species. This does require me to provide an avian vitamin/ mineral supplement at least twice a week to ensure proper nutrition levels. If you feed pellets you should not use these type of supplements except on the orders of your avian vet.

My birds get up as it begins to get light outside and about 30 minutes after they wake I provide them with fresh water and a fresh raw vegetable, fruit and a leafy green. About 30 minutes after this I feed my birds a home cooked food that is referred on this forum as gloop, it consists of partly cooked whole grains, vegetables and fully cooked navy beans and lentils. I provide an adequate amount of these foods to last until dinner time and then I give them their seed mix along with some tree type nuts, the amount of nuts is dependent on the species of parrot. I remove the seeds when the bird go to sleep at dark.

This reply is getting long and I need a break, but will return shortly to answer the questions that you have asked.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: DYH Amazon Questions

Postby Wolf » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:21 pm

OK, lets see about your questions.

1) Like you, I am thinking that Boni is only molting as this is the normal molting time of the year, I would, however keep a close watch to be certain, If she is plucking then you will most likely begin to see a bald patch where she is pulling out her feathers.

2)There is very little if anything that you can do about making Boni like your GF any better. If you make sure that you do not make physical contact with your GF when Boni can see it that is about all that you can do to reduce the aggression/ Your GF may want to continue to treat Boni the way that she has always done. She should also refrain from physical contact with you in Boni's presence. Also you mention petting Boni, so you should both be aware that the only place that any parrot should be petted is on the head, neck, beak and sometimes the feet. Every othr place that you pet will only serve to sexually excite the parrot as all other points are erogenous zones on a parrot.

I am not sure whether actually reducing the amount of time that you spend with Boni will do much to help with this situation, unless Your GF picks up the time with her. I would suggest that if you try reducing your time with Boni that you also go somewhere out of sight and hearing of Boni while your GF picks up on the time with Boni.

3) I do not see that trying to stop Boni from climbing down her cage would really serve any purpose, if I were in the same situation, I would just close the bathroom while it is in use until the situation improves.

4) The only reason that I would ever cover my birds cages is to prevent any source of light from disturbing my birds rest at night. As long as there is no artificial light coming into the room that the bird is sleeping in, then I would not cover the cage. If there is any artificial light at all coming into my birds sleeping space then I would cover the cage and then get up at dawn or just before so that I could uncover the cage in time for the bird to have full exposure to the twilight period at dawn.

5) By all means, I would try to provide my birds more than one or two places to perch and spend time when out of the cage. A play stand would be such a place. I have hung boings from my ceiling for my birds, I also have a tree that I built for my birds to play and perch on. I also hung some bird safe toys on both the boings and on the tree for them to play with as well as on the play tops of their cages. Natural bird safe tree branches with the bark left on for the bird to remove make the best perches for your bird either inside or out of the cage.

that should answer your questions, briefly but still to the best of my understanding. I would like to know if Boni is clipped or not. Your posting leads me to believe that she is clipped and if this is true then it is something that I would urge you to change as soon as you can resolve the current issues as Boni would be much better off if she is able to fly.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: DYH Amazon Questions

Postby liz » Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:00 am

Rambo bonded to me on his first day in my house. He hid when his last human came to visit so she could not take him home. With the addition of my daughter to the house he changed his preference from me at #1 to me at #3. He no longer stepped up for me but would even follow Rachel around the house when she was home. My Momma was #2 and Aunt Betty was just someone to torment. When Momma died Rambo was traumatized. The closest person he could claim as his "grandma" was my aunt. He went from making her scream to climbing up her chair for comfort. Aunt Betty stood in as #2. Instead of making her scream he claimed her as a good buddy who always had food to beg for.

Because Rachel has not been with us for a lot of the year and a half that we have been in FL, Rambo rearranged his line up of humans. I am #1 again. Aunt Betty is still #2 and Rachel is no longer on his list. He will not even step up for her now.
new
They each have their own personalities and you don't know how one will react to something new.
I was content to be #3 for so long that it is strange to have him come to me for scratches.
User avatar
liz
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 7234
Location: Hernando FL
Number of Birds Owned: 12
Types of Birds Owned: DYH Amazon Rambo
BF Amazon Myrtle
Cockatiels: Shadow Tammy Flutter Phoenix Jackie
Andy Impy Louise Twila Leroy
Flight: Yes

Re: DYH Amazon Questions

Postby Pajarita » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:34 am

Welcome to the forum, Rod, Boni and girlfriend!

Wolf already gave you a great and very detailed answer and here are my two cents:

1) Boni is plucking out only her white feathers but keeps her green feathers. I was thinking she was only molting, but Boni plucks them to the point where it seems like she is hurting herself. She grunts a bit in pain. My GF says this a new behavior. Is this because of her hormones? Infection? or is this simply molting?

I doubt it is infection but, if you are in doubt, a skin scrape at the avian vet will take care of any doubt. If she is actually pulling the feathers out with her beak (and the 'pain grunt' would seem to confirm this), she is plucking and not molting. In my personal opinion, it is, most definitely hormones.

2) How can I get Boni to like my girlfriend again?! My gf pets her everyday, but Boni just bites her VERY hard and seems randomly aggressive towards her. Should I reduce the time I spend with her?

When a parrot mate-bonds with a person, reducing the amount of time and forcing the parrot to 'accept' another person doesn't work. As long as you are in her life and, most likely, even if you leave, she will continue to love you and only you. Your girlfriend is no longer the 'chosen one' and nothing you or her can do will change that. BUT this doesn't mean that your girlfriend cannot be a flock mate! The trick is, like Wolf mentioned, for her never to have any reason to suspect that she is competition for your love and for your girlfriend not to take liberties she is no longer willing to give her. She should only interact with her when you are not around (at least for now until she stops producing sexual hormones -they have a 100% one-tract mind when they are hormonal) and then she should never ask for anything and only proceed with interaction as the bird desires. If Boni takes the first step to approach her, she should cooperate but she should not be the one asking.

3) She loves going down her cage and walking to the bathroom when my gf is in there. She either tries to get in the cabinets or tries to attack my gf. Should I absolutely prevent Boni from going down from her cage?

She is looking for a nesting place, that's why she tries to go into the cabinets (again, hormones!).

4) Should I continue putting the blanket over her cage every night? Should I let her sleep out of her cage?

As Wolf explained, it's not so much the number of hours they sleep, it's their exposure to the seasons through the length of daylight that does it. Covering the cage might allow her to go to sleep BUT if her body was not exposed to the dusk light, her endocrine system will not be able to adjust itself to the seasons properly. Also, the covering of the cage needs to be made out of a black-out material because the merest sliver of light is registered by their photoreceptors.

5) Should I invest in a perch? Her favorite hangout spot seems to be on a specific kitchen chair. Maybe she would like to be on a branch instead?

YES!!! Tree branches are what all birds were created to perch on so, by all means, do get some nice branches from trees that are not poisonous and make her a couple of stands you can place around the house for her.

On the diet, if you are freefeeding pellets, her intake of protein is too high (I also don't feed pellets, I've been doing research for over twenty years on their natural diets and have reached the conclusion long ago that pellets are NOT the best dietary option for them). Studies done with amazons parrots determined that they only need 17% protein when breeding (and this means feeding babies!) and, as all pellets have a minimum percentage of protein, even if they only listed 17%, you would still be feeding too much as A) a minimum is not an actual number and B) the bird is not breeding, not flying any distance, not exposed to the elements, etc.

Now, at 8 years of age and after not been in tuned with the seasons (due to her not been at a strict solar schedule all this time), she is now overly hormonal. There is difference between a parrot that, because it is breeding season, is hormonal and a parrot that has been producing sexual hormones for years without stop (there isn't a single species of birds that produce sexual hormones all year round). The thing with birds is that, during the resting (aka winter) season, their gonads are minuscule and completely dormant but, once the days get to a certain number of daylight hours (this is called the point of photorefractoriness and it's different for each species), they start producing sexual hormones, their sexual organs become active and enlarge to prepare for breeding BUT, when you keep a bird to a breeding diet and a breeding light schedule all the time, their gonads become huge to the point that they start pushing the internal organs out of place which causes the bird acute physical discomfort if not pain - and this is the state that we call 'overly hormonal' and 'sexual frustration' which is what your bird is at right now. I have three female amazons (and one male) and, although the males get quite protective of their hen and their nest and can be aggressive, the females usually get all mushy and super affectionate and only become aggressive when they are sexually frustrated.

Now, this is a very good time of the year to start them on a solar schedule because the days are still long enough for the change not to be too drastic... But, it's going to take some time for her aggression to disappear because the more screwed up their endocrine system is, the longer it takes to get back on tract so don't despair if you don't see any change in a month or so, just keep at it and she will, eventually calm down - and this is when you girlfriend will be able to interact physically with her without getting bit.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: DYH Amazon Questions

Postby RodRay » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:27 am

Thank you all so much for your advice!!! :thumbsup:

I'm going to try waking her up at sunrise and sunset. What I was previously doing was covering her with a blanket at 8pm then removing it at 9am. That was helping a bit, but I think your method is much better, natural, and consistent. I also feel that my lifestyle/schedule may also contribute to Boni's lack of sleep because I work on the PC late at night and I wake up late. I feel that my movement and the noise that I am making disturb the little one's valuable sleep. :amazon:

Today, I beginning to change my schedule hopefully for the better. I woke up 5am for the gym and woke up Boni at 7am just at sunrise. She seemed a little suprised! :lol: And it seemed at though she was a still a little sleepy. Setting a timer on my phone to remind myself to cover her up at sundown and also making sure to keep it quiet at night.

After speaking with my gf, Boni has had hormonal issues and has had surgery because of that same issue with her organs and vent that was mentioned above. So yes, controlling her homone balance is absolutely crucial.

I didnt know pellets were bad for her - definitely going to stop that. Going to try the recipe you mentioned, Wolf. Did some digging on the forums regarding diet, Kashi's 7 Whole Grains Pilaf + Veggies and Fruit seems like it'll be good for her as a first step? (Pls correct me if I'm wrong) I will also take away her foodbowl at night like you advised.

And yes her wings are clipped. And that also may have contributed to her hormone imbalance. I only took her once to get her wings clipped, but after seeing her struggle and cry out for help - I felt SOOO guilty about it :( I'm very reluctant to get them clipped again, but I fear for her safety if we take her outdoors. Maybe a harness would help? I doubt she would like it though!

Also, I don't know if this matters, but the current place we live in has MANY MANY wild parrots outside and she grew up in highly urbanized area near Los Angeles. I can only imagine what she's thinking when she hears all those parrots make their noises! :( :violin:

Thank you all again for your tips and I'll keep you posted on her progress (my progress too as a better parrot daddy haha) As I'm finishing writing this she actually went back to sleep! That Diva! :lol:

Oh and not sure how to build a perch stand and not sure which ones are poisonous/safe for Boni. I saw a DIY perch made from PVC Pipes, but that may be toxic for her no? Any reccommendations to one I can purchase? Thank you!
RodRay
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 2
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: DYH Amazon
Flight: No

Re: DYH Amazon Questions

Postby Pajarita » Mon Sep 05, 2016 10:44 am

You don't need to wake her up. She will wake up on her own with the dawn light -it's hardwired into their genes and they have the photoreceptors for it. The trick is to either leave her cage uncovered (but this only if there is no light coming in through the window from a street lamp) or uncovering it before dawn or when the sky is beginning to get lit -that's what I do, I get up early (6 am these days) and uncover the cages that are covered (only three because those are the only ones that get light from street lamps). As the sky becomes more brightly lit, the bird will wake up on its own - this is what nature decreed and the best way for them.

Now, you don't necessarily need to change your schedule. Birds do get used to normal household noises as long as they are always pretty much the same and will sleep right through them or wake up for a second and then go back to sleep. The trick is to keep them in the dark and to keep the noises to a soft volume so, if you have to work in your computer until late, keep on doing it, just cover her cage with a black-out material (and make sure the material is kind of 'tucked in' at the bottom so light doesn't come into the cage) and just uncover it after you are done and have turned off the light you are using (it's better if you use a table lamp than a ceiling fixture).

Yes, the Kashi gloop is the easiest. I came up with it for people who have just one or a few birds. I don't use it for mine because some of them don't like the taste of rye so, if you have trouble transitioning her, try a recipe without rye and see what happens.

I don't remember you mentioning surgery or vent problems... Was it a prolapsed cloaca?

Any bird can get used to a harness - it all depends on how you do it and how long you try...
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes


Return to General Parrot Care

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

Parrot ForumArticles IndexTraining Step UpParrot Training BlogPoicephalus Parrot InformationParrot Wizard Store