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The Terrible 2's

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The Terrible 2's

Postby Laurie Feldman » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:25 am

Hi everyone and I hope you are all safe and taking great precautions.

Well, our almost 1 year old female Senegal Mimi has hit the Senegal parrot version of the terrible twos. She is now happily bonded with our 13 year old male, You-You. He adores her, cleans her, feeds her, generally makes google eyes at her. They do the little love dance and have a wonderful time together playing, eating, co-preening, and snuggles. She has just started a behaviour of running after him biting his feet and tail feathers to make him feed her. He's super patient but my husband sometimes separates them, putting her into another cage, as once in a while You-You just gets overwhelmed. (I am watching all of this on webcam from my isolation quarantine, having just returned to Italy from Tokyo. So I'm in quarantine "jail" and will be home in a few days, SO thankful for the webcam).

Any suggestions as to how to cope with this new behavior?

All the best, Laurie
Laurie Feldman
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 37
Location: Florence, Italy and Imperia, Italy
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal parrot
Flight: Yes

Re: The Terrible 2's

Postby Pajarita » Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:52 am

:lol: It's the age gap. She is a teenager full of pep and hormones and he is an older, calmer adult - unfortunately for birds, there is no birdy Viagra to help him out with the young 'hot chick' :D What's done is done but this is the reason why it's always recommended that you get a potential mate in the same age-group (meaning baby, juvenile or adult) as the bird you have. It ends up being easier on the birds AND the humans...

I don't think there is much you can do but wait it out and give him a respite every now and then as your husband is doing. But I don't know why they are showing such acute breeding behaviors because sennies are short day breeders and go into condition in the fall (they breed in November and December in the Northern Hemisphere).

I have been under 'house arrest' for weeks now but, as I am used to being in the house without going anywhere for days and even weeks at a time, it's not too bad - only problem I have is that my husband is NOT a good shopper so the poor birds have been eating the same fruits over and over (apples, oranges, grapes, bananas) because he doesn't know how to shop for anything else.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: The Terrible 2's

Postby Laurie Feldman » Mon Apr 06, 2020 11:56 am

Ugh, sorry about the shopping but at least you've got your husband there to help! I'm glad you are both safe and sound.

Yes, You-You the male has in any case always - year round - done this sort of mating display (the lowered wings, grunts, and dancing around, a bit of regurgitation) with my husband. We'll keep going with separating them once in a while. By example they are back together now and she is behaving. I wonder what happens when they mate. We don't really want more birds, but I want to do the right thing for THEM. I suppose if they do mate and produce babies we can ask the breeder we got her from if he wants babies. Hopefully, when the time comes, we will know what to do. Take good care!!
Laurie Feldman
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 37
Location: Florence, Italy and Imperia, Italy
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal parrot
Flight: Yes

Re: The Terrible 2's

Postby Pajarita » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:08 am

Please, please, PLEASE reconsider allowing them to reproduce! For one thing, it won't make a difference to them if babies actually come out of the eggs or not so long as you allow them to go through all the motions: courtship, nesting, laying, incubating, they will be happy. Birds in the wild don't always produce viable eggs and they lose entire clutches to predators, weather, accidents, etc. so, to them, when an egg doesn't hatch, there is no ' mourning' for what could have been and was not. They simply start another clutch. Ergo, switching the eggs with plastic ones is a wonderful solution for them and us. And, for another, it's not only their wellbeing that you need to think about but the babies'. There aren't that many good homes for parrots (not because people does not try real hard but because it's almost impossible to find a good that is stable (people marry, divorce, have children, go on vacations, move, etc), financially able (for years and years and years), has somebody who loves birds and stays home all day long (because they need to follow a super strict solar schedule and avian circadian cycles), is knowledgeable and willing and able to do research all the time (because we learn new things every day about them), etc. so the chances of the babies ending up in good homes is really very slim (breeders sell to whoever has the money to pay for the babies). Breeding an animal is a HUGE responsibility (and I am not even going into the HUGE overpopulation of pet parrots!) because you become responsible for the beings you bring into this world. It's like having children of your own. And it requires A LOT of knowledge because you need to know about the right environmental conditions it requires (people don't even know that humidity is a huge factor in DIS, for example), condition the birds for months in advance, know about physiology, pathogens, genetic conditions, etc as well as hand-feeding, weaning, etc. And you cannot learn these things by reading something somebody posted on the net, either. It requires hands-on experience of, at the very least, a couple of seasons AND in-person mentoring. I started helping to care for canaries when I was 8 years old and have kept different breeds throughout my entire life but I did not start breeding them until I was in my 30's and under the supervision of two mentors. I was very successful, no DIS, zero infant mortality, no genetic defects, healthy parents and babies, etc but I stopped doing it because even though canaries are 1,000 times easier to care for than parrots (they are a domesticated species and there is no overpopulation whatsoever), I still could not find enough good homes for them. So, please, think about this very carefully.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: The Terrible 2's

Postby Laurie Feldman » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:31 pm

I totally don't want to have babies to deal with. It's too hard, and too much of a responsibility. I've already realised that. But I'm wondering how we deal with them mating. Do we remove the egg if she lays? And will they then mate again? I'm afraid of her trying to lay too often and then become egg bound. But I know NOTHING about it, so thank you for all the advice.
Laurie Feldman
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 37
Location: Florence, Italy and Imperia, Italy
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal parrot
Flight: Yes

Re: The Terrible 2's

Postby Pajarita » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:31 am

It's actually quite easy to allow them 'breeding' without reproduction.

1) Give them the right kind of nest (easy, you find them online)
2) Make sure the female has enough calcium and D3 in her diet (something you always have to do anyway).
3) Switch the eggs with fake ones (easy peasy)

Birds always lay their eggs early in the morning so all you have to do is have the right kind of plastic egg (they sell them online and they are listed by species) and, when you find a new egg, switch it with a plastic one and give them an extra dosage of Calciboost (in Europe, it's called Calcivet but any liquid complete avian calcium supplement will work) to ensure their reserves are not depleted. The trick to them not becoming chronic layers is to always leave the eggs (in this case, plastic ones) in the nest because, as they are indeterminate layers (with the exception of the budgie that is determinate -a 'determinate layer' is pre-programmed to produce a certain number of eggs per clutch - an 'indeterminate layer' does not have a number, they simply keep on reacting to environmental clues), they will continue to lay if you take them away.

Birds that are kept at a solar schedule, get the right diet (making sure they get enough D3 supplement and have always access to calcium -cuttlebone, mineral block) and fly (this is important because the same muscles that move the wings, cross in front of their chest and go down to the abdomen where they are used to push the eggs out) don't have a single problem laying eggs - people are often afraid of their birds laying eggs but it is the most natural thing in the world for them to do.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: The Terrible 2's

Postby Laurie Feldman » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:51 am

Dear Pajarita, this is EXACTLY the advice we were looking for. Thank you SO much for this. I have saved it and will keep it for when the moment comes, which looks like it will be sooner than later. They are living part time together now, and roost at night together. They're super happy to see each other, but after a short time of cuddles and play, she goes for his feet and starts to make him nuts. One of the great things of quarantine is that my husband is always home with them to deal with this. I,having returned from work in Tokyo, am still (by italian law) in isolation in a hotel. But I see them on webcam, which I thankfully bought just before going to Japan. Tomorrow I get to see them in three dimensions, and there will be a lot of cuddling. This is the first time I've been away in Mimi's short life (she turns 1 year old on the 15th), so I hope there is no trauma! ALL THE BEST TO YOU
Laurie Feldman
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 37
Location: Florence, Italy and Imperia, Italy
Number of Birds Owned: 2
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal parrot
Flight: Yes

Re: The Terrible 2's

Postby Pajarita » Thu Apr 09, 2020 9:49 am

Glad I could be of help and all the best to you and your family, my dear! Keep safe!
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18701
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes


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