Breed, Rescue, Breed & Rescue

[Artistic Feathers]

I just wanted to start a discussion about a touchy topic.

To breed or not to breed that is the question.

I respect breeders myself but only if the birds being bread are not being treated like animals at a puppy mill. But to tell people, who enjoy keeping birds and take care of them correctly, that they can't. I just don't feel that is right either. Sometimes I feel like these people should just not have animals because they don't believe in pets either?

I believe in rescues too...Most people don't know how to take care of birds because it is a relatively new to the "popular" pet trade. I have birds and I am still learning everyday just how cognitive they are. I love it, I love rescues, I wish there were more.

Lastly, I love the fact that certain breeders have their customers sign a release that if they ever have to give up the bird for any reason it goes back to the breeder. Then the breeder re-homes it or keeps it.

What do you think?

[Rue]

I have a slightly different solution...but when I talk to people in the industry...even the rescue/boarding kennel around the corner from us, they don't think it would work.

I think a breeder needs to take a one-time mandatory pet care course. This goes for larger breeders or an individual who wants to have the odd litter of puppies/kittens or clutch of birds (etc.).

Then they have to pay a fee with each batch of babies. For the sake of arguement, let's say it's the selling price of one puppy per litter, bird per hatch, etc. So the larger breeders would pay more than the backyard breeder.

Pet owners would pay whatever license fees they do now.

This would reduce the number of animals bred just for fun or to make a quick buck or accidentally, but the serious breeders probably wouldn't have a huge issue with the concept...unless they're only in it for $$$.

Of course, getting people to claim all their litters might be problematic, but it would be easy to get them to take the initial 'breeder's license'...similar to getting a driver's or a gun license...

[ptuga72]

Wow, this is an in-depth topic. In essence this is my opinion of the whole shee-bang:

In general, I am against breeding, but of course there are always exceptions. After being involved with a rescue group, I have seen the cruelties inflicted on birds by humans and the sheer number of birds being surrendered/abandoned in Northern California alone would astound you. There are so many needing homes, I personally couldn't justify going to a breeder. BUT I also know that rescue/rehomed birds are not for everyone and that in many areas there aren't many birds available for adoption (especially if you're looking for a specific species/personality characteristics). In this instance I encourage those to go to a REPUTABLE and ETHICAL breeder. If you want to see what one is like, ask Bmsweb. He allowed his babies to wean properly, at their own pace. He loved and cared for his babies and made sure that they were properly vetted. He also had well-screened and informed homes BEFORE they were hatched.
I never support purchasing from chain pet stores, these birds are from mills, and often suffer greatly while in their care. Yes, my Jake is from a pet store, but I had no idea the magnitude of this problem at the time.
Which brings me to the problem of people not knowing any better. They don't know what really is going on, nor how to properly care for a bird. This is contributing to pet overpopulation of all animals, not just birds.
There are many problems that are causing the overpopulation of pets, too many to list here. And, I have too many (not very good) opinions on to solve it to list as well

That's my 2c, anyways.

[Azure Hanyo]

I gave in to a pet-store buy when I brought home Archimedes... I admit he was a COMPLETE "pity buy", because he had been at that dumb place for a litte over a year in a tiny cage, all by himself. No interaction. I just couldn't leave him there anymore. At the time I had my heart set on getting a baby tiel from the same breeder I adopted my Stanley from in 2000 (whoah I feel old. "Y2K", anyone?... Anyone?) I admit I still almost wish I would have gone with the well-bred bird on principle...but...Archimedes was worth breaking the Code for, no? He is a great bird, just not particularly friendly or tolerant of many people. But it isn't his fault he was ignored and neglected.

I think if pet stores continue to sell parrots, they should require a special handler who takes them out and intereacts with ALL of them on a daily basis. Leaving such intelligent creatures in cages is just cruel.

My personal opinion is that breeders should be liscensed and have inspections of their facilities every year, and pet stores shouldn't be allowed to sell birds.

[ptuga72]

Archimedes was worth breaking the Code for, no?

Every bird is worth it But in my honest (and probably wildly unpopular) opinion, no matter how sad and heart wrenching pet store birds are, buying them is only making the problem worse. Every time a bird is sold at a pet store 2 are brought in to "re-stock" it. If no one bought those birds, they wouldn't sell them. And it's not that people who buy/breed birds are bad people or that their birds are less than, it's that the birds in these stores are too accessible to impulse buyers, not to mention to the horrific ways in which these birds are treated.

As mentioned before, I got Jake from Petland. When this one opened near our home, I loved it. It was shiny and full of cute puppies and endearing parrots. On the outside it looked like heaven to an animal lover. I got Jake because I fell in love with him. I wanted a tiel, but Jake stole my heart. In my naivete I thought I had bought a quality bird from a quality store. But then the protesters came, and I researched what was beings said about them. I was horrified at the animal mills they purchase from, the ill and poorly bred animals they sold and profits they were making off of these poor creatures. This was only exemplified when I realized Jake was never allowed to fledge, and on top of it all, had psittacosis. I never went back, three months later the store closed.

My personal opinion is that breeders should be liscensed and have inspections of their fascilities every year, and pet stores shouldn't be allowed to sell birds.

I completely agree with you. I also think that breeders need to hold their customers to a higher standard as well. The largest part of the problem is the people buying the birds.

Sorry for the soapbox, this topic always gets my hackles up...

Here's an article that highlights the "parrot problem" well. I don't know if it's been posted before, if it has, sorry

http://www.parrotchronicles.com/features/overbreedingbirds/overbreedingbirds.htm

[Kim S]

I agree with ptuga completely. I am a breeder as well and I do take special care to make sure my birds go to a good loving home. Usually its a family home with one, preferably more, pet birds. If there is no such home to be found, they stay with me and their family. A couple of times a year some friends and fellow breeders come together to swap birds. This is an easy way to make sure no bird goes into the pet trade but ends up in a nice aviary with breeders who care. Another plus for us breeders is the opportunity to swap genetically identical birds (siblings) and make sure you dont interbreed family.

The 'good' breeders are members of a bird association. This can be the Dutch association of birdlovers or the parakeetassociation. Both require a contribution and a membership of either is neede to order legbands. Responsible breeders order legbands. You have to pay for each legband and you pay contribution. Its not the same as Rue proposed, but I think its good enough.

I know that breeders in Germany are requiered to have some sor of liscence to sell birds. To get the liscence you need to pass a test of husbandry I believe you call it. In any case, you need to know a lot about keeping the animals, diseases and overall health, breeding and such.

I dont take my breedingbirds to a vet for checkups. I do send stoolsamples every now and then to an aviary vet to chek for anything weird. Once a year I select a few birds that dont look very happy and take bloodsamples to be tested on pbfd and such (most of these illnesses only show when the bird is under stress, so taking a happy go lucky looking bird wont do you any good).
The birds get dewormed twice a year. Every day medical care, like infected eyes, mange and such I can treat myself without having to go to a vet.

If you wish to know what my aviarie and my birds look like, take a look at my site (dutch only, sorry, but the pics need no words, right?): http://maasparkieten.come2me.nl/


To compensate my breeding, if you can call it that. I do take in unwanted birds if need be and try finding them a new home. I keep them completely seperated from my own flock in case there are any illnesses.

[Azure Hanyo]

I completely agree with you ptuga, and yes EVERY bird is worth it... I knew about the bird mills, etceteras, when I gave in and took Archimedes home, but he was from a chain called Jack's which is local and get their birds from local breeders, so I didn't feel like I was doing something to promote bird mills...

I know I shouldn't have, because it just adds to the problem no matter WHERE their birds come from. I just couldn't leave him there. I have a soft-spot for the mopey birds no one else wants... That's how I chose Galileo too, but she was at a bird sanctuary. She was mopey and sad. Now she chirps and whistles like crazy and has started to figure out what toys are, and begs for head-scratches! It's so wonderful to see how my mopey feathered kids are now active and playful... Even though Archimedes doesn't really like me much, no matter how much time I spend with him. He would rather be off doing his own thing and trying to tear apart the blinds. Oh well.

I will never get a pet-store bird again... I avoid even looking at them now, because I just KNOW I would see another Archimedes just sitting there, waiting for me. I could never work at a pet store. I would have 1,000 animals.

[TheNzJessie]

i support breeders who find good homes for the birds and turn down people they dont see fit to own a bird. when i brought my lorikeet he wasn't bred to be sold, he wasn't even planned but the breeder got given king parrots and needed the room. jango and his sisters were at the perfect age to be rehomed they were 12 weeks old. cathy (the breeder) even turned down people who wanted her to clip the birds wings (im not against people who clip but she is) she would only sell him to someone who has owned a rainbow lorikeet before and she even interrogated me (with humor) about loirkeets she was very strict with who she gave him and his sister two and it took her to go through over 30 people looking for a cheap bird through to first time owned and out of those 30+ she only had 2 people she trusted that the birds wouldn't be rehomed

thats the sorta of person i support she didn't care about the money but really cared about the birds

[entrancedbymyGCC]

I'm for thoughtful breeding and appropriate rehome-rescue with pretty much ANY animal. I don't really feel any differently about birds than horses in this respect.

The breeder/store owner we got Scotty from is very, very careful about selling her birds, but the sales agreement states no returns -- they have a closed environment and they don't want to re-introduce birds which have been out of their control health-wise. That said, they do have a boarding room and they have some rescue/rehome birds that live there, which they are trying to place.

If there were no breeding, there would be no birds at all after a while (admittedly with parrots this would a take a century or so). Too much breeding and there aren't enough good homes.

[captwest]

I'm an Amazon breeder, only 4 pair, and many, many rescue amazons, most of my breeders are ex-pets unwanted usually because of behavioral problems. I know of only a few breeders who can sell enough birds to pay their bills, yes there are probably a few bird brokers making money but i think most of them have the contracts with pet chains.The reason i'm responding is that you think you love your pet , don't imagine that we don't love ours, you don't want my vet bills, my birds go to the vet before my wife or i go to the doc. Quailty pelleted food, fresh fruit and veggies, my birds eat better than us and before us.Consider this, pull a baby at 3wks then hand feed it and watch it grow, and they all have their own personality, after a couple of months this baby is ready to go to a new home, if you think that you can feel anything other than love for that baby your crazy, my wife often crys, to think that breeders would sell that baby just to make a buck........try selling your baby. breeders aren't the money hungry heartless people we are often portrayed as, Every breeder i've meet has pet birds, we're bird lovers above all else, if you have an issue with your pet, who better to give you some insight into your birds ? I would venture to say that the vast majority of knowledge that helps you keep your pet healty and happy can from the school of hard knocks that some breeder(bird lover)endured. Now to address the issue of rescue birds , yes there's definally a need to rehome unwanted birds, however i think impulse buying comes into play here and many of these birds are in the same if not worse situation, where you buy a unwanted bird off of craigslist or Petmart's cute little Sun, maybe buying from a local breeder(who cares about his babies) is not such a terrible thing, I'm sure i could write a book here, but will cease to ramble, perhaps we could encourage people to visit this site before buying a bird. Richard