Taking pionus out of cage

[bill]

Hi. I 'm new here. Last week I bought a hand fed baby white capped pionus parrot. The first day/night I let it see me but did not take it out of the cage. I went to get a bigger cage at the same store and the store owner told me to "get that bird out of it's cage." So I did that. It didn't want to go out, but I picked it up anyway. It was perfectly behaved after I took it out. I just let it sit on my lap and hand for a while. Yesterday I did the same thing. However this time it bit me (did not break the skin). I took it out and it was better than ever. Today, it came out by itself as I was putting food into it's bowl. Hopped right on my hand. No problem. Is it ok to just take it out by me going in and getting it? I have to pry it's beak and claws away from the bars. I want to be sure I handle it every day.

[miajag]

I don't think you should be pulling him out of the cage when he doesn't want to come out. He will learn to fear your hand and become bitey. When you want him to come out, put his food dish or a favorite treat outside the door to the cage so he has to come out and get it. They're much more willing to step up and be handled once they're outside of the cage.

[Michael]

Miajag is wrong. Most new baby birds will be scared at first but you can work past that very quickly through operant conditioning. If you give in to the bird, you'll never get it out. For all the bird's I've worked with, the first few weeks I'd have to spend a little effort getting them out but not for one of them did it take more than 2 weeks for it to be begging to come out! With any bird, within two weeks it would run right to my hand to step up and come out.

The key is to make it super rewarding to be out of the cage: interaction, treats, tricks, training, etc. Make sure nothing bad happens out of the cage. You can't wait and see if the bird will want to come out because it will never want to come out at first because it is scared and doesn't know that coming out is a good thing. Once you've had them out a few times and showed them how great it is, they'll learn to want to come out. Luring will often not work because the fear will overcome hunger in regards to coming out initially.

You can use my training guide for training an aggressive bird to come out if you really want to but it really is unnecessary for a baby. They're used to being handled and they are young/forgiving. In your case I recommend grabbing and getting it out and then giving it an incredible time when out. Target train it outside of the cage and then you can try to apply it by targeting out of the cage onto your hand willfully.

[miajag]

I was specifically talking about pulling him out when he's clinging to the bars. If nothing else, doesn't this risk injuring the bird's feet? If the bird is willingly hopping onto his hand or otherwise going without a struggle when he sticks his hand in the cage that's great.

[bill]

Thanks, folks. Right after dinner I'll take her/him out again. It is rather amazing that once out of the cage it is completely tame. Nice to do so with this information and not feeling like a bully.
bill

[Michael]

Obviously don't hurt him when pulling him out of the cage. But you mentioned that you slowly work each toe off and beak off the bars. In my experience I only had to do that the first few times till the parrot learned it's good being out. Then they come willingly.

The simple fact is that if you don't do it this way and take the "bird's pace" at it... it may NEVER want to come out cause let's face it, it has everything it needs in the cage and you're just an intruder. My feeling is that the slightly bad experience (and BTW, this must be slightly bad and better not be traumatic) of being pulled out of cage gets quickly forgotten with all the treats and attention when being out. By getting it out sooner, the earlier in it's life will you get to set up a trust bond.

Here are two things to definitely not do:

-Never make this a traumatic experience by chasing the bird or being too hard on it
-Never give in and let the bird get away with biting or not coming out

If you're too hard on the parrot, it could develop a fear of you that could be hard to countercondition.

If you're too easy on the parrot and pity it and give up trying to get it out or when it bites stop trying to take it out, it will learn that behavior and replicate it every time. If the parrot learns that biting you makes you go away, it will always bite when it wants you to go away. Now once your parrot is familiar with how wonderful it is to be out of cage, you can offer it a "choice" of being out or not by offering your hand. If it steps up willingly, you take it out and if it does not you go away. That enables the parrot to make a choice and usually it will choose to come and will be happy. If it chooses not to come, it's probably moody and you wouldn't have wanted it out to begin with when you realize it's acting up cause it doesn't want to be out. However, with a new parrot it just doesn't know it wants to be out till you show it what being out is. Good luck.

[Mona]

Hi guys;

Another thing you should do is look at the cage. You want a very big cage door.

A lot of parrot cages have very wide doors that swing out. It is usually very easy to get a bird in and out of a cage if the door is big enough. I think the biggest problem is if the door is too small. The bird will hang on to the sides of the cage and/or bite.

What size cage does the pionus have?

I'm not advertising, but doing a quick search on the internet, here is the correct size cage with a big door that would work well for a pionus:

http://www.bird-cage.com/birdcage/chiqu ... -cage.html

I'd stay away from something like below. It's a lot harder to get the bird out of a cage like this. See how the door is more like a guillotine:

http://www.bird-cage.com/birdcage/delux ... -cage.html

You can see how easy it would be for the bird to bite you if you decided to reach in and ask for a step up. They will also be inclined to grab onto the cage and hang on when you are taking them out.

The wrong cage size is a common problem for a lot of new parrot owners.

Thanks!

[pchela]

You should never forcefully remove a bird from it's cage. It's not a matter of letting the bird "win"... the bird is simply scared. If he is a hand raised baby he should come out on his own once he feels comfortable. Try offering treats from your hand... every time he takes a treat from your hand through the cage bars tell him "good". Speak to him softly. Eventually you should be able to lure him out with a treat. Let him get used to you. You want him to trust you. Pulling him out of his cage when he doesn't want to come out does not build trust. You do not need to be the "boss" of the bird. Birds are not like dogs, they do not have a pack mentality and do not follow a leader. You just need to learn to coexist and form a loving relationship.

[bill]

I have a cage with a double door. It is a door within a door; one small and one very large. I take the bird out through the big door. I was told by the store owner that
i should first get his attention by saying his name followed by "up up" command to get him on my finger. I practiced this tonight outside the cage. He did well. The store owner said to be gentle but firm when taking him from the cage. Also said to have him play on top of cage and do step ups from there. Then I'm supposed to take him out, let him have a good time for a short while, then put him back and out a few times in succession. Keep you postrd. How does this sound?

[Michael]

Sounds perfect. Don't practice so much on top of the cage as on a separate training stand somewhere out of site or in a different room.