Neck Biting and More!

[Kirsten]

Hey there, I wanted to post some of my most recent updates and concerns on my favorite little Sun Conure, Skittles.

First off, neck biting. It's nothing horrible and I think there a few moments where it's not intentional and other times where she bit you and she meant it. Sometimes she just loses balance on my shoulder and has nothing to grab onto other than my exposed neck. She does the same thing with my ear at times actually. What I'm more concerned about is what looks like a learned behavior. I admit, it's probably my fault. Generally, if you have anything in your hand, food or not, she wants it. If it's food especially and if it's something she likes, if you don't give her some, she'll turn around and bite your neck until you give her some. The list includes, orange juice, coffee, fruit shakes, aluminum cans (I try to keep those away especially), straws, glasses and especially PHONES. If I'm talking on the phone Skittles won't leave the thing alone. She squawks and tries to pry my fingers off the phone so she can tear it apart.

I'm pretty sure my biggest mistake is that I have simply given her some of these items and she's learned that biting gets her what she wants. Since discovering this, I've tried a couple methods, such as grabbing onto her beak and holding it still, which sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Other times, there doesn't even seem to be a reason, she'll just be sitting there and suddenly turn around and bite me. Usually this is either because I left her in her cage without giving her time to play a little in the morning because I was running late, she's hungry, or if it's about bed time. Generally she's only in a biting mood when I get home around 6:00pm and before bed when she's cranky and doesn't have something to snuggle into. I know that sometimes she bites when she's annoyed by something, like when my mom cooked peppers and Skittles couldn't handle the fumes. Basically, I just need some advice on correcting this problem.

Other than that, she's slowly becoming more and more hand tame. When she's sleepy is her best time where she'll flip over and curl into my hand or neck and chew on her foot. I'm even able to pet under her wings at times in this state. Still no luck with harnesses. I have a Feather Tether and she REALLY doesn't want to have that thing around her neck. Now that it's getting warmer outside I'd really like to take her outside without worrying about where she might spazz and fly to next. I'm looking at getting an Aviator and seeing if she does any better since it doesn't look like it might choke the bird, which is my main worry with the Feather Tether honestly. I've been slacking on the flight suits and I really need to get on familiarizing her with them if I ever want to bring her to work with me.

Anywho, her yellow back feathers have finally decided to bloom and she starting to look even more beautiful every day. Comments or suggestions about any of this is welcome.

[patdbunny]

If she can't behave nicely on your shoulder, she's not allowed up there. Shoulders are a privilege.

[captwest]

I realize that alot of people say reward good behavior and ignore the bad , and it works , for the most part. Bit when it comes to biting i think you need to be more agressive , i hate to use the phase "punish" but if she bit me i'd put her back in the cage and ignore her for a while. I 'm afraid she's training you and you need to be the big bird here and set the rules. If you bite , you can't be with me. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Chris&Akilah]

Just how does one stop a bird from going to your shoulder? I decided Akilah shouldn't be on my shoulder weeks ago. Easier said than done, she is extremely persistent about it. If I'm holding her on my finger at chest height, she will just jump onto my shirt and climb up to my shoulder...I pull her off and put her somewhere else, she comes right back like a yo-yo.

[entrancedbymyGCC]

Scotty likes to head for my shoulder uninvited -- I call it "storming the castle". He's tame enough with me that I can just block him physically from doing it by putting the arm he's not on in the way and holding him out too far to grab onto my shirt.

"Punish" isn't a bad word and it doesn't mean hitting. It's anything you do to reduce the occurrence of a behavior you don't want. However, it can be very tricky and its better to try to shape the behavior you do want. I got Scooter to (mostly) stop biting me when he didn't want to go back into the cage by teaching him to ask to stay out by rubbing his head on hand instead. That said, I find the advice to simply ignore biting somewhat problematic. It's just not natural, or even IMO particularly desirable, to just sit there and let a bird gnaw your finger off. But I usually try to remove the beak from the flesh as gently as possible and I generally wind up putting the bird down or away long enough for me to cool down. What you don't want is to put the bird away if that's what it really wants in the first place.

[patdbunny]

Chris - What you're doing to keep the bird off your shoulder is just fine. It takes a lot of repetition and consistency if the bird's used to being on your shoulder. Putting him back in his cage for his yoyo behavior works for this - the bird can make the connection that when it scurries to your shoulder it goes back to its cage.

You have to do it in increments, escalating to being put back in the cage: 1st scurry to shoulder 1st discipline is blocking with hand, if bird reaches shoulder retrieving off shoulder and holding on hand; 2nd scurry 2nd discipline is blocking and if bird reaches shoulder then retrieving off shoulder and putting bird down somewhere it doesn't want to be like the floor, wait a minute and pick up the bird and see if it will stay off shoulder, lots of praise, scritches and rewards any time it's on your hand; 3rd scurry 3rd discipline is blocking and if bird reaches shoulder then retrieve off shoulder and put in cage.

You can repeat discipline 2 numerous times if the bird's making small improvements and you may not need to go to discipline 3.

If it gets to the 3rd discipline I personally would end interaction time for a significant amount of time like 1/2 hour or more, leave the room, etc. The bird learns we're done if he can't behave. You see that before each escalation I do the blocking. That's a warning to the bird that there's a consequence coming up and the bird gets a chance to decide to stay on the hand and avoid the consequence.

Of course if the bird stays on the hand (or forearm if that's where you want it) you give it lots of scritches and rewards. If your bird allows it, you might also pin the toes along with the blocking when teaching it that you want it to stay on the hand.

[Kirsten]

Well my situation though is that this only happens when I'm downstairs. Her cage is on the third floor of the house and we have a play perch that we roll around and take up and down the stairs. So when she bites should I just put her on that perch? It's not enclosed and if she really doesn't want to be there she'll fly off of it to the floor or onto the couch (as her wings grow out she's getting a better aim).

My dad actually seemed to treat her like a dog when he got bit. He grabbed her and she squawked a whole lot and dad just held her firmly in his hand and bopped her on the beak. He then sternly said "No" to her with eye contact. When he let her go she didn't bite for the rest of the night but I don't know if it was just out of shock or what since she was breathing heavily afterward. She was still back to biting the next day. I've been trying to just grab her beak and hold it when she bites hard and sometimes that works, but most of the time she goes back to doing the same thing.

I'm considering buying a smaller cage for downstairs as kind of a "time-out" spot. Also, I think part of the reason her bites are getting worse is that her beak is getting a bit sharp. I know my vet clips wings and nails, do you think they'd be willing to file down the tip of her beak a little? I have troubles keeping a good hold on Skittles to actually do any of that.

[patdbunny]

No reason to file down/clip the beak unless it's overgrown. That tip has nothing to do with the bird's behavior of biting.

A little bit of assertive discipline for biting is ok, BUT it sounds like your dad's being way to harsh. It sounds like he is terrifying the bird. That will actually make the biting WORSE because the bird feels it needs to protect itself. The correct amount of forcefulness is the amount that makes the bird stop biting, but the bird is not afraid. Then the bird will learn that biting receives a consequence.

If the biting is only happening downstairs, stop and observe WHY. Is downstairs the only place that your dad disciplines the bird (fear of being downstairs near your dad)? Is the bird biting out of fear or brattiness trying to get to stuff it wants? Is downstairs to busy and the bird's overloaded?

You indicate your house is very busy and noisy. That can have a big effect on the bird's noise level and behavior level. I try not to sell a conure into a very noisy, busy household because it tends to cause the bird to be very noisy and stimulation overload can cause the bird to be very nippy/bitey.

Also, given how busy your household is, is your bird getting enough sleep and quiet down time? I breed sun and jenday conures and have had them for 20+ years. These conures really like to be in bed and quiet at sun down. My daughter's little sun conure is very spazzy and nippy if he doesn't get his full night's sleep.

Fear biting you treat differently than bratty biting, you treat differently than stimulation overload biting.

[patdbunny]

Oh - beak grabbing generally doesn't work. It's usually seen as a play behavior so you might be actually reinforcing the biting.

[Sarah&Rico]

I know Rico is nervous when it's dark, or the lights are dim. Is your basement well lit? Just wondering if it's a possible trigger.