Need a training plan and advice

[Grey_Moon]

So Sully is healthy, but the problem remains of how to deal with my two who are not friendly towards each other---as well as trying to juggle schedules for both in a household that is not flight friendly (the birds are allowed in my room at present, but nowhere else).

I am debating a properly done wing-clip because:
-It would in theory allow my birds more out of cage time (if clipped I could bring them room to room on a playstand)
-Would assure safety of my cockatiel because my grey could not lunge and bite at him at will by flying over (I could also work on her aggression towards certain items, people and pets because her attitude would be given a major check by losing the ability to claim everywhere she could fly to as her own)
-Would mean less chasing and etc of either bird if they land up somewhere high and will not come down
-Would give me time to thoroughly socialize my cockatiel (he is flighty and spooks extrememely easily, and trying to socialize him to calm him is impossible because he startles and ends up somewhere high---I do not think it is good for our relationship if even if I sneeze he spooks)
-Would give me time to reinforce good behaviour patterns (recalls, step-ups etc) that are difficult to do right now as both birds are more interested in being more wild and standoffish (mostly fleeing in the cockatiel and territoriality related to breeding in the grey)

I feel it would improve the quality of life for each bird and as well as the relationship between the three of us. I would love to avoid clipping of course, and this clip would definetly only be temporary in order to get some order and good patterns going---but I would need a lot of help and even a training template in either case.

Of course, if the only way that the complete and long-term happiness of either is for them to remain flighted and to be the sole parrot in the household getting hours of attention then I've already contacted the rescue to place Sully if I need to.

If someone could give me a try this or do this checklist I'd be grateful.

[sora no tori]

(the birds are allowed in my room at present, but nowhere else).

First of all, could you explain the reasons why they are this restricted, because that may make a difference in which solutions will be viable.

[Grey_Moon]

Because I rent a room from my paternal grandparents who have lots of carpeting and aren't thrilled about the idea of flighted birds zooming around.

[sora no tori]

In that case, you should check out the parrot training blog or parts of the parrot forum that discuss potty training. As for the clipping idea: I'd try to avoid it if at all possible, and as the owner, it's your call. What I would suggest is desensitizing your grey to your tiel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bnr-eocu-d4 Try not having the birds out at the same time for a bit until the grey becomes a bit more accepting. As for your tiels flightiness, just be patient, and try to make any time he spends with you feel as safe and comfortable as possible. Let him have his favorite treat only while he's hanging out with you. I really hope that helps...

[coolhady13]

no man never clip your birds wings , i remmber i read someone's comment saying

cliping the bird wings is like someone cutting your feet

so dont .

first : parrots gets tired from flying fast . and incase they run away from you when you come to train them. remove food from there cage 3 hours before training . that would make them a little hungry so that they would focus on training to get the treat ,also you can do a lot of training inside the cage. i taught my untamed budgie .the target ,nod and wave tricks inside of his cage.

so no need for clipping there wings. and about them being not friendly with each other. i realy dont know about that but you can always click and reward them when they behave good .and click and reward when they stop doing a bad behavior like someone biting the other or something like that .

[Grey_Moon]

I'll give that a shot, although of course Jacko's amd Sully's situation is a smidge different than that of Kili and Truman because of the dramatic size difference and that in my case the bigger bird is the aggressor. My end goal would be being able to have them out on their own seperate stands and being able to bring both in the shower etc.

But, seeing as Jacko attacks her cage and desperately tries to open the locks on it to get to Sully when he's out and even dials in on him when he's 5 feet away or across the room I don't know if I'll get there. I want my birds to have a certain lifestyle and if I can't achieve it for both (that being i want them out for hours everyday and to travel with me when possible) then Sully will be rehomed so that Jacko can. I really am not into the idea of them being on a rotation schedule and want a much more casual, natural flock-like and holistic way of being with them (i.e. we wake up, i go about my morning routine with them perched on my shoulder or nearby, we share breakfast, they get put into their cages and I go off to work school, I come home and they come back out, if i go to a friend's place etc they go into their pak-o-birds, instead of budgeting time and always leaving one behind because of the incompatibility)

[sora no tori]

Well, it sounds like you have it figured out. I'll be sorry if you end up having to rehome your tiel, but it's possibly the best option for him if Jacko is so hell-bent on aggression. I notice Jacko is older. did you get him first? I'm wondering if the aggression is territorial or if he is already attached to you and jealous of Sully.

[sidech]

If I was in your shoes, I would consider clipping before adopting out.

I am a big believer in temporary clipping to give good behaviors and routine a chance to install. All my birds have come to me clipped, and I have let them all become flighted later on, when they had settled nicely into acceptable behaviors.

I don't think 8 or 10 months of restricted flying is detrimental in a 50 year lifetime, if it leads to the bird staying in the same household for a good part of its life.

Follow your instincts, there will always be people telling you not to clip. I say do it for a short time if its necessary.

Good luck fellow quebecer!

[Grey_Moon]

Sora no tori---yup, Jacko was my first bird, and Sully came into the picture about a year later. Both are very bonded to me (mmm birds trying to hork up food on you----what love ) The aggression I think is a combo, because the funny thing is if both birds are outside on their harnesses there seems to be peace, as well as when Jacko is soaking wet in the shower. Of course, these seeming moments of peace give me hope, but I don't know.

Sidech: I'm generally of the same persuasion and will have a discussion tonight to see if i clip them both if my grandparents would be allright with a bit more free range for them, because then I will. As you said, its a temporary situation and it would be foolish for me to preserve their flight because of what I want them to have in the future when right now it would be so much better for them---because honestly, being able to fly versus attention, games, love and flock-hangout-time? I just worry as Jacko has been flighted for about 2-3 years now and I worry what taking that away from her will do. Sully is also been flighted for about a year now and is still working on his flight skills, so that's always food for thought as well.

[sidech]

Make sure you do a light clip, 3 to 5 feathers. You might also want to consider only clipping your grey, so your small bird can flight if necessary.