Green Cheek Conure: Breeder vs. Pet Store

[kiko13]

Hello Everyone!

First off, let me thank all of you for being so helpful just in all of the reading I have been doing in the past few months in preparation for getting a green cheek conure. Your input and stories have really allowed me to pick the best bird for my particular living situation. I will post a formal hello and brief intro about myself shortly but I am in a bit of a time-sensitive bind that I hoped you could help with.

I intended on getting my green cheek (a pineapple) from a breeder since the breeder I chose seems to socialize her birds very well and produce incredibly sweet greenies. However, I visited a large chain pet store a few weeks ago just to play with the birds and listen to the sounds and noise they make and to make sure that what I was reading online would still work for me in real life. The best way to make a decision is to interact with them one-on-one, right? At least that was the intent.

I ended up playing with a few of them and they were nippy and clearly not played with at all but one in particular caught my attention because she would allow me to scratch her and seemed to love it once I had her held against my body. She would nip a little but would enter a trance of sorts the minute I scratched her head or anywhere else on her body (she would occasionally nip but I would gently dissuade her by distracting her). I have gone back two more times to play with her and she seems to be hesitant to willingly interact or to step up but she loves it once I hold her to my body and I scratch or pet her. I have a big soft spot for her despite the occasional hard nips - I have read enough to know how to dissuade the behavior and to not accidentally offer positive reinforcement for this action. Being the tough guy that I am, I suck it up like a champ! But I do work toward having her change the behavior so I don't just let it happen, no worries.

She was born in February of this year which makes her about 9 months old. There is a sale going on and I spoke to the manager about her age and her current socialization so he is willing to offer an additional discount and I could bring her home for $225. He has opened up their cages all 3 times I have visited so I think he is also inclined to get rid of me and have this little bird find a forever home! The price aside, I had intended on spending that much with a breeder (plus cost of flight, etc) so now I am caught between what I feel is a moral obligation to purchase this green cheek from the large chain pet store because there seems to be the potential to successfully socialize her and make her a wonderful pet with the right work or to continue with my plans to get an already socialized greenie.

I don't want to be impulsive in believing that I can work miracles so I'd love your input. If a green cheek is already 9 months old, is there any hope that I could possibly get her to be just as tame as a bird that was hand-fed and interacted with right away (I would obviously put in the necessary work and time - I understand this doesn't just happen because it is something I would like to see)? Or do you feel/have you found out through experience that there is a certain age at which it is just incredibly difficult or impossible to get a bird to be a great companion bird? I understand that the question I pose are certainly subjective but I ultimately just want to know whether I'm getting myself into something that isn't actually possible or whether I might be able to make a great companion out of this bird and save her from the neglect it might ultimately experience. I know that as she gets older, it will be even more unlikely that someone will purchase her, let alone interact and play with her enough which means she will just end up as alone and without prospects of a good home. I don't want her to be treated like damaged goods or like merchandise that can no longer be sold.

Any help or input you guys can provide would be incredibly useful, including questions that I have perhaps forgotten to ask myself or parts of this that I have not fully thought out. It's a bit difficult to think clearly and perfectly rationally when I see an animal that needs my help or that might ultimately live a sad life and I feel like I can do something to prevent it.

I have attached a picture of the sweet little girl -- I think she is a pineapple though I have seem some similar ones that are considered red-cheeked pineapple conures (I understand that naming can sometimes be creative such as "fancy conure" but this was the name utilized by an actual breeder who seemingly bred for the red cheeks and more intense red chest). Not particularly important to me but I do love to learn so if anybody can offer clarify on that front it would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for all your help and I can't wait to read what this insightful group has to say!

[Munchy]

I am probably the last one who should be answering this as I have only had my conure for a year now. I bought my Disney from a breeder. Disney was pretty tame in that his wings were clipped and he would enjoy climbing up and down my arms. But it was all on his own terms. I have had him for a year now and he lets me scratch his head, he does summer salts across my chest and on occasion I can pet him on the back. I have tried training techniques, but I am not spot on with my timing, so I touch him more and more during play, which seems to work. Point being that just because you buy from a breeder, even a reputable one, there is no guarantee of sweetness or tameness. It sounds as if you have already bonded with the young girl, I'd say go get her.
I am also aware that there are others who'd say no because it is perpetuating pet store horrors. My philosophy is that every living being is entitled to a good life and just because she ended up in a pet store doesn't mean she shouldn't have a chance to find a home with a responsible owner.
I know the breeder I bought my Half Moon from, on occasion sells some of his unsold birds to a bird store in Hollywood. Really aren't breeders just pet stores with out the business store front? If they were breeding to release back into the wild I suppose that would be different, but that's not the way it is.
What ever bird you choose to get will need training. Disney now flies to me on command. Well.... most of the time, With this girl you might be starting off at a different point, but if you are willing to put the time in, the pay off might be even more enjoyable.
Just an opinion, I'm sure you'll get more

[WVUSAE]

I bought my birds from a pet store. They were older (around 2 possibly 3) but it broke my heart to see them. I know its not ideal to have older birds but I felt an obligation (I bought the male first then the female later because my grad school stuff has increased so they can socialize) so I understand your pickle. My family has had a history of adopting animals (from the Seeing Eye $50 for a dog that had cancer and was retired from service and a 130lb german shepherd someone left at the groomer where my ex worked and also turned out great). If you really bond with it, I would say go for it. I've had my one tiel around 2 months and the other for 3 weeks or so. They are coming along where they perch on my shoulder and bicker and hang out together while preening my hair and nibbling on my ear.

Do what you think is right

[AbtZooGirl]

I definitely don't think she is too old to take home. And you're right, the older she gets the more and more likely it is that she will stay there, because like with any other animal, people think they need to have BABIES. No one considers how long they might live. I'm a huge advocate of rescuing, myself. The issue with the cost.. if it's what you intended to spend anyway then there's no problem there. And as for 'perpetuating pet store horrors' I think that a good business will finally know that the amount of time a 'product sits on the shelf' so to speak, the more money they are losing by keeping it there. So if anything, as long as the manager knows how much money it costs to keep her versus the profit made on selling her, you may have forced that store to realize there's not much money to be made in selling conures to the public if it takes 6 months to sell, especially if they aren't well socialized. Ultimately I say.. GO GET HER! She seems to like you enough and it doesn't seem like her behavior cannot be corrected with proper training. My two cents.

Lindsay

[kiko13]

Thank you so much for your input thus far everyone! I must say that yes, I have been thinking about him/her non-stop. I have visited every evening just to see how we get along and yesterday she saw me at the outside glass door and began to do a dance so I'd go in and play for a bit. She's still a little hand shy and won't step up but she was even fighting off the other conure (cage mate) because she did not want to share the attention. Whether or not that's a good thing, I'm not sure... I kind of felt bad for the other little guy but hey, at least she wants me sticking my finger in and slowly touching her.

Surprisingly enough, I found a youtube video of someone that had gone in a few months back and recorded the particular pineapple I am talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzKdIw7yBBw

Her colors are beautiful.

I have read some pretty bad reviews about the pet store but I am making preparations in case I finally decide to get her since it would ideally occur tomorrow (5 days off work so I can work on bonding). I have called the vet to try to set up an initial exam/wing clipping (I know people don't agree on this one but for my purposes I think it would make interacting a bit easier in the beginning and I have made up my mind on this). Other than that, I will finish disinfecting the cage I have tonight and hopefully wake up with a decision tomorrow.

As to the whole Pet Store moral dilemma: I have gotten it to the point where yes, the store will take almost a 50% hit in terms of what they had intended on getting but I'm sure they still make a profit so it still irks me that just because I want to give her a good home, that I am buying into a system I don't agree with. Perhaps I can sit in the bird room and start my own Occupy Bird Rooms movement?

She is certainly a bit nippy but far from hopeless. I just have to sit with this decision for a bit longer but please feel free to chime in if you have any other thoughts, suggestions, questions, concerns. The things you have all said thus far have really helped me keep things in perspective.

On a positive note, I noticed that the cage mate to the bird I am interested in was limping and it broke my heart. I pointed it out to the staff and the woman seemed genuinely concerned and said: "I will definitely have to keep my eye on him then." It seemed a bit swollen. Not sure if it got hurt on the cage itself or it it was my little nippy pineapple that could have done some damage - she was getting a bit violent with it and showed aggression toward the Pionus next door (she was banging her beak against her cage bars) when she saw it come to the side where their cages almost meet up. She certainly does not lack personality, that is for sure.

[cml]

Im glad youve made up your mind and is getting your little fella =).

However,

I have called the vet to try to set up an initial exam/wing clipping (I know people don't agree on this one but for my purposes I think it would make interacting a bit easier in the beginning and I have made up my mind on this)

What purposes are you referring to?

If it is for tamining it isnt any easier to tame a clipped bird than a flighted bird, it will only seem tamer because its subdued and cannot fly away if it wants to.

It is of course your choice, but I would beg you, for your future birds sake to reconsider. Clipping is cruel, and you wouldnt cut off a couple of the legs from a dog just to stop it from running around the house.

[dohcsvt]

We got our little GCC from petsmart and he was about 8 months old. He is a fun little guy and loves my wif. He does get nippy sometimes, but it has gotten progressively better.

[Munchy]

Considering she for you I am hoping you go get her. and share pictures with us. But of course it is your decision.

[Naurthon]

Nikko was 9 months old when I got him from a parrot store in San Diego (not a chain pet store). Once I brought him home, he learned to step up right away, despite not having been handled much when he was in the store. He was pretty nippy for the first year I had him, My right hand often looked like it was covered in paper cuts from his bites. And while he does still occasionally PINCH with his beak, he no longer bites hard enough to break the skin. I don't think you'll have any serious, long-term problems getting your GCC from the pet store.

BTW: I had to laugh at "Occupy Bird Store!" Just don't start chanting "Whose birds? OUR BIRDS!" or they are probably going to toss you out. Beak check! Beak check!

[Zanizaila]

Before you buy any animal from a pet store, make sure you're fully understood in what conditions those animals are being bred, and to what kind of people the pet stores will sell to with no consideration. The pet store people can be called anything but animal-friends.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QrycKxyZCk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnsPdR_6OHs (From 1:30.)
http://www.parrots.org/index.php/blog_mtweti/

Most ordinary breeders are not much better. The standard breeding facility has small cages (so-called "aviaries") where the breeder birds spend their entire lives, or until they are no longer producing (no longer profitable, that is). No toys, no enrichment, just them and their nest. Then they have babies that are taken from them the moment they are born.

The chicks are then hand-fed by humans (parental deprivation; which can cause severe psychological problems later in life), often wing-clipped while still young (before their musculature, brain and self-confidence is anywhere near fully developed), and sold to anyone with money in their pockets.

I can only recommend anyone to rescue and adopt, not encourage the aviculture of today.