To clip or not to clip?

[Lesa1211]

Hello everyone, I hope Im posting this in the right place. My Goffin (Kia) is 8 months now. The pet store I got her from clipped her wings before asking me. At first I didnt mind much. I have an autistic 6yr old son that opens the door to the yard alot and the sliding glass door to our deck. There is a hanging screen on the deck doorway but it hangs from the top only, the sides arent attached.

Also, we have a camp in the country that we visit almost every weekend in the summer. Kia will be going with us of course. My son is in and out of the enclosed porch there as well. Ive been doing alot of reading about clipping and not clipping and I just dont know what to do. I really dont want Kia to get out and get lost.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Lisa

[Grey_Moon]

Well... you do have more reason than most to clip what with your son opening the doors unexpectedly and whatnot, so that's a consideration point.
I think for me it would come down to the whole safety vs quality of life issue (even then, that's your own personal call to make after research), plus taking into account your bird.

I would try very hard to leave her flighted, because I have witnessed first hand the personality and confidence benefits it gave my timneh (a species, like cockatoos, who tend to be featherpluckers) from allowing her to excercise her birthright as a bird. Goffins are known for being high-energy, and all toos run the risk of developing screaming and mutilation/plucking issues----so I would leave her this way to express herself and her energy as well as avoiding any aggression or fear issues stemming from clipping to try and avoid negative behaviour as she ages.

Goodness knows that if clipping birds kept fly-aways from happening that it would be worth it perhaps, but they don't. They *may* reduce risk/give the owner a false sense of security--but plenty of clipped birds have been lost. In exchange for this sense of security they had to give up something I think they need and are made to do.

Having a flighted bird takes away this sense of security and makes one often more vigilant than those of clipped birds. I need to be aware of everything at all times due to Jacko being flighted---but I feel its worth it because what good is 50 years of life if she cannot live? A person could extend their years by living in a bubble---but is it worth it?

Of course, if I lost her tomorrow I'd probably eat these words and regret not keeping her clipped, but I would know that I would've done the right thing by her and that she might've not gotten 50 full years on the ground but she got 7 in the sky to be a bird, which is what she is.

Mind you--in the end its all up to you.

[Naurthon]

This is an eternal debate within the world of parrot people. You're going to find very strong opinions on both sides.

My birds are currently semi-flighted as an experiment. At almost a full pound, Dante is a heavy bird, and if he's completely clipped, he crashes onto the floor hard enough that he can injure himself. He has a "show clip", which leaves the first two flight feathers intact. This gives him enough lift that he can reach the opposite end of the house when he jumps off his cage, and reduces the threat of injury considerably. Nikko is nearly flighted to allow him to escape from Maxwell, who tries to attack Nikko at any opportunity. Nikko has flown into windows several times badly enough to stun himself. He's recently taken to flying off of his cage and into Dante's to eat Dante's food, even though he has plenty of his own. (Dante is NOT impressed by this!) Every time Nikko has flown into the living room, he goes straight at a window or the sliding glass door. I've decided the risk of injury to Nikko is too great, so he'll be getting clipped next weekend. Dante will keep the show clip.

I won't tell you what I think you should do with your bird. I will say that if someone forced me to bet $1,000 on whether, in the circumstances you describe at your home, your bird will stay in the house or not, I'd bet against it. It is almost guaranteed that at some point your bird is going to fly out the open door. It only takes once, then your bird is gone for good.

[marie83]

Is there any way you can install some sort of grill over the windows which can lock and keep doors permenantly locked with something that your child has no access to? This idea will require you to be very careful with those keys though and remembering to keep them locked, quite easy to get distracted an forget though. Was going to suggest putting bolts on the doors high enough so your child can't reach but he would probably only get a chair or something to be able to reach it.
Only other thing I can really think of to avoid clipping is bird proofing one room in your house and keeping that locked at all times but that would probably restrict the interactions between you and the bird and I don't really think thats fair to have it shut in a room away from everyone for the majority of the time. You could harness train your parrot for interactions out of the bird room but I'm not really sure that harnesses should be used for long periods of time even under supervision.

I hate wing clipping but I think you have more reason than most to do so, it may well be the best solution for you to continue clipping but keep in mind that even clipped birds are capable of getting outside and flying some distance in the right circumstances. Hopefully a few more people will come along with some better ideas for you to consider.

[pennyandrocky]

i don't think clipping is the only solution,a clipped bird can still get out and be lost. have you taken her out while she's still clipped? i conditioned my greencheek for outside while he was clipped because having kids in and out of the house things happen, just the other day penny hitched a ride on my friends shoulder right out the back door but with him being used to outside, in his outdoor cage, i just walked over had him step up and brought him back in.i would look into large outdoor flight cages for camp/home.

[Lesa1211]

I want to thank everyone for the advice and comments. I have only had Kia for a few weeks now, she's only 8 months old. Therefore Ive only had her outside once. Spring is just arriving so some days are more cold than others. I dont have an outside cage for her yet so I just wheeled her cage out on the deck and let her stay outside for a few hours on one of our 78 degree days. The deck is covered so she's not in direct sun.

I still havent decided to keep clipping or not but Im leaning more towards it. I love this bird and I dont want to risk her getting out. My son's autism is pretty severe and he's used to his routines. He doesnt speak and it's pretty hard to communicate with him.

Kia will have a good life with us clipped or not, and as much as I would love for her to be able to fly, I just dont think she would be safe in my home flying. We live around ALOT of woods, and if she would get out, I dont see me being able to find her. Thanks again everyone!

[Wrong Bird Lady]

You have had a lot of good advice but I just wanted to reiterate the bit where, if uncaged, even a clipped bird can 'fly' away. I know cockatoos are bigger but any strong gust of wind could potentially carry your bird off enough to get lost. One thing I've found out from having young cockatiels is that they need to 'learn' how to fly, so a bird who has not mastered flying is less likely to be able to steer themselves if caught up in a wind and to make their way back even if they wanted to. Clipped just means 'less chance' of escape.

As mentioned before the type of clip you go for will determine if your bird can even get off the ground. I've seen people who completely take ALL the feathers so they just have triangle stubs. Sure that's the best way to cut risk of flight but my personal opinion is it's ugly and unnatural. Others take the primary feathers and leave the secondaries so their birds can get a bit if height. This show clip sounds a bit like what my Ryo has...and trust me she can fly! It wasn't on purpose, the store owner started to clip her and was going to go for the extreme clip but we stopped him. Because he cut from inside to out she lost all her secondaries but has all her primaries. At first we thought she couldn't fly...then she started to get height but crash into things...now she's doing circles around the room a few inches from the ceiling lol! All in the space of only 3weeks Yes technically she is clipped (and missing a bunch of tail feathers too) but she can fly pretty good! It's just she's a baby so she's still learning

[Oceanna]

Clipping isn't permanent. It grows out so you can always change your mind at a later date. You've given great reasons for clipping her wings. I have a Goffins female who is over 30 years old and has been both clipped and unclipped at different time and never has plucked herself.

I would put automatic closers on every door your child uses, clip the bird, and work on teaching your son to check that she is safely in her cage or closed in another room before he opens the doors. You also know the times he's coming and going most and you can keep her caged during those times for her own safety.

When you see that it's worked out well for a full year -- so you know that you and your son have both developed strong good habits to protect her, then you can always let her wings grow out if you like. It won't hurt her to be clipped forever if that's what keeps her the most safe. You can still exercise her wings by swinging her up and down on your hand. And yes it would be nice for her to be flighted, but her safety comes first.

So do what you feel is right by your family and don't beat yourself up for it. Your family can still provide a wonderful life for her. Besides, it's not easy to teach kids responsibility because, well, they're kids. But it is good for them to learn to think of the family pets and to consider someone besides themselves. You sound like a great mom to me, so I'm sure you'll do what's best.

[Cage Cleaner]

Gl

[GlassOnion]

I would really opt against clipping... Mainly because Goffin's cockatoos are NOTORIOUS for plucking, like so many of them become habitual pluckers and the habit sticks for life. they are so energetic with a lot of energy to burn and so emotionally sensitive than most other parrots.

I have kept both clipped and flighted; I can tell you that a clipped bird is like a person bound to a wheelchair, a bird oppressed in spirit.