Parrot training gone terribly, terribly wrong

[Ursibear]

How's it going today, are you managing to keep Sisu off your shoulders? And has your bf started interacting with him again?

No... I had a major scare with him yesterday. It looks like he gets abgry when he doesnt get to be on the shoulder. He has toys on his new perch and such but he doesn't want to stay on it. He keeps getting down and going over to the keyboard to try to climb on my shoulders via the hand
I kept putting him on the perch for oh... I don't know, maybe 3 times or so. Then he started claiming my keyboard for his own by pecking it (i recently found out that he pecks things to let everyone know they are his)
The fourth time i leaded him to his perch, he bit me.
At this point I'd like to remark that when i say bit, i don't mean a wound that drips blood and all that. I mean to chomp down, realign his beak and shake the head so he can get a chunk of the flesh. And he gets big chunks too. That skin and dermis won't grow back.
So it is pretty hard for me to actually stop myself from reacting. I tried yesterday and all that happened is that he ripped off the chunk of flesh, spat it out, and then took another one.
At this point i decided to wave him off with my hand. I didn't actually hit him or anything but he got absolutely terrified.
I let him sit on his perch for about 30 mins in which I was ignoring him, and he was ignoring me. so far so good.
But then he came down to the keyboard again, and tried to bite. This time i said "NO!" and he glided off to the floor.
I thought it would be a good idea to let him cool off before putting him in the cage, but it turns out i was wrong.
A bunny came close to him to examine him closer and she is now lacking a tiny cartilage triangle in her left ear.
And i wasn't going to allow that, so i had to towel him. And he screeched bloody murder all the way until i got him to the cage.
Now he won't eat, drink or move at all. I am afraid i might have hurt him during the towel incident
My bunny won't come out of the cage either, but i won't extend on that because she isn't a parrot after all.
Anyway... how do you repair trust after something like this? And how do you stop the little bird from trying to claim too many objects? Gotta make it work somehow...

[Ursibear]

Oh, sorry Eury. I managed to miss your post
I'm not sure of what do i do to merit the regurgitation attempts really... i scratch his head and neck, sometimes his beak with my nail. And i let him rub his head against my hands or face. Been staying off the bacl, belly and wings as recommended

[marie83]

Wear thick clothing where practical to try to give yourself some protection against bites. This is probably impractical regarding your hands but bites there are usually easier to ignore than elsewhere.
Definitely keep bunny in when your parrots out and vice versa- at least for the time being. Have you tried hiding treats in the toys on his perch? One of mine only wanted to be with us for quite some time, we showed him the toys were good to play with but he didn't want to know until we started encouraging foraging on it. These days we hardly ever put any treats on but he still goes to play on the stand for a while just in case there is a few treats.

Your bird will get used to the no shoulder thing but it will take time. Again we had the same problem will Ollie when he was going through his biting stage and I just didn't trust him to be there after he got me right under my eye......... when he climbed up or flew onto my shoulder I would gently tip him onto the sofa and walk to the other side of the room for a few seconds. I would then walk back over to him before he flew after me.

You will get there but you do need to be strict and perservere. Believe me I know its hard, even with a smaller bird I was at my wits end with Ollies constant biting at times but nowadays he is barely any trouble, he is still a bit jekel and hyde dont get me wrong but I have learned to recognise when he mood is changing, when he isn't happy with something etc and distract him with something else before he gets too wound up or put him away for a short time.

Keep up the work anyway and keep us updated

[Ursibear]

Sisu is now my friend again. He is now whistling "happy birthday" to me, even though it's not until june
I just think i am going to have to accept that he has sudden temper changes. I need to get better control of him to put him elsewhere when he throws a tantrum.
He doesn't step up and once he is where he wants to be, nothing will remove him from there.
Before he attacked my boyfriend last week, I was following Michael's guide to parrot training, and we stopped when Sisu first touched the target stick. Mostly because now he won't accept treats from my hand anymore (he flings them away) So i guess the whole process will take quite long Patience!
He also refuses to eat anything but his seed mix, grapes and apple pieces from his bowl. He will eat anything from my fork, he even snatched a piece of meatloaf from it once, but i don't want to encourage him to eat outside of the cage other than foraging.
The only pellets i can buy here is Harrison's and he HATES them. He'd rather go without eating for two days than eating just one of them, seriously :s He also likes the Oxbow bunny pellets <.< but i doubt they provide everything he needs hehe.
Long story short, it's going to take quite long to tame this birdie. I really appreciate all your help guys, I don't know what would i have done without the help
I'll keep posting his process regularly!

[cml]

To get him to eat the pellets, try soaking them with juice, we used orange juice which converted Stitch to pellets in a week. Leroy already ate pellets when he arrived, so that was easier.

Just remember not to leave the soaked pellets for more than a couple of hours at the most, as it gets bad rather quickly. Also, everyday, decrease the ammount of juice until there is none!

[Ursibear]

That sounds awesome! much more so than doing it with water as i was thinking Thanks, i'll try that

[cml]

Actually, I dont think it was orange juice but some tropical juice. Just make sure to check that the contents are bird safe =)! Hope it works as well for you as it did for us!

[Ursibear]

Update:
Downside: As of now, everytime i don't allow Sisu to climb to my shoulder, he goes on a biting rampage (i now wear leather gloves when i handle him just in case) and then he glides off, hits something, keeps flapping and screeching and hitting the same object all the way until i grab him with force and put him in the cage . Longest time i've let him do this was 20 seconds, I won't let him do it more because i don't want him to get hurt
I've had to do this 3 times today. He gets over it in a couple of hours though. I just don't know how much more of this can we go through before he injures himself
Should i just let him be on my shoulder?
Upside: He's getting really good at flying He now gains a bit of altitude... right before he hits something.

I'm really worried though, I can't continue his training because he keeps flinging his treats away... All he wants when i get close is to have his head scratched. Until i put my hand in the cage and ask him to step up (he does this when he wants to though, not when i need to) then block him from getting to my shoulder, or put him in his playstand, which he hasn't used in days, or his tabletop perch, which he seems to hate. After that... see above.
In addition, should he get good at flying before i can target him about a bit, it's going to be hell to control when he goes to the cage etc.
Does anyone have any suggestion....? I'm out of ideas over here

[cml]

Should i just let him be on my shoulder?

No. From what you have described I wouldnt trust Sisu to be on my shoulder!
In my opinion, you need to take a step back, and work with basic taming again from the sounds of it.

What seems to be happening now is that you want too much, and when it doesnt work, you get into a conflict with your parrot. I know it isnt intentional, but when you put him away, or towel him like after the bunny got bit, he associates it with something very negative. Your hands will become something bad in his eyes!

Michael has great articles on postive reinforcement, but also on what can happen when you reinforce something you DONT want to happen. I suggest that you read, or re-read them as they are truly a great resource for every parrot owner out there!

Personally, I would go back all the way to the start from the sound of it, and keep Sisu in his cage for a couple of days, sit close by it, talk to him and make him feel comfortable around you again. Then start offering treats through the bars until he takes them.

You need to get target training under control, but this can be done even inside the cage . Be patient and work with your parrot many times a day! Also, its very important that your bf starts sitting by cage and make your parrot comfortable around him as well, dont neglect that. Otherwise you may end up making your bf into a trigger for aggression for your parrot!

I wouldnt keep handling him with gloves or towels unless absolutely necessary, it will hurt your relationship if it continues to be a punishment. By putting Sisu into the cage as a punishment, you also risk making him stop wanting to go into the cage, something that should be seen as a GOOD thing.

Here's a few articles that you should read!

http://trainedparrot.com/Caging/
http://trainedparrot.com/Taming/
http://trainedparrot.com/index.php?bid=54&article=Reasons+Why+Punishment+Should+Be+Avoided+With+Parrots
http://trainedparrot.com/Bad_Rewarding/

[Ursibear]

Thank you Cml I've read Michael's entire page but... um, I don't know how to explain it. My parrot seems to be bipolar. Either he is very happy, or very, very angry. There is no middle ground.
The latest incident for example, was about 2 hourish ago. And he is already chirping and asking for cuddles and wanting to come out.
Honestly, I'm not sure of what to do. Nothing i do (either possitive or negative) seems to make an impression on him.
The thing is, everytime something like this happens, for a split second after i put him in his cage after having to subdue him for his own safety (and ours) I can see how disappointed and betrayed he feels. After that he is just rabid angry until he gets over it a couple of hours later and starts acting as if nothing had happened.
But for that one moment i look in his eye and his expression breaks my heart. I haven't cried this much over an animal since my Alsacian died when i was 7
So yes, i will try to keep him in the cage for a couple of days. The thing is, his cage is way too small and the one i ordered hasn't arrived yet... they say 10 days more before it's here. And he really likes to come out and just hang out and whistle and mimic for hours. I am afraid that he will resent me if i don't let him out... but then again, he is already resenting me so... what's the worst that could happen, right? hehe...
I'll read Michael's posts again. I've done so with the basic training one about once every couple of days, but i must have missed something, because this is not going well at all
I'll let you know what happens.
Thanks again!