Parrot training gone terribly, terribly wrong

[marie83]

Agree with CML, give it a couple of days then start again from scratch. It wont harm him to be in a cage thats too small for a couple of days but I wouldn't reccommend it for the long term.

What is her favorite food? When your ready to begin training again take all the food out of the cage a few hours before you train her, this will hopefully stop her being so wasteful with the treats you offer her, she will be a bit hungry by then. If she still doesn't want to know then increase the time you take her food away, as long as your not leaving her without food too long she will be fine and this should only be a temporary thing to kick start things anyway.

[cml]

How's it going =)?

[Ursibear]

Hey guys!
I've now had him in the cage for 2 days... He accepts treats from our hands now, but he has developed other problems. So i guess it's not going so well
He has stopped eating anything but the sunflower seeds that come in his seed mix. I have tried to soften his pellets in orange juice, grape juice, tropical juice and peach juice but he won't touch them still. He also has stopped eating apple and grapes which he used to eat before, so now i'm concerned he will get malnourished...
He has also begun screaming. Well, i guess it's more like beeping as a fire alarm. Anyway it's really loud and the landlady, who lives above, has complained. We believe there can be two reasons for him to do this: 1) It's Thursday. I had yesterday off so i spent a lot of time with him, just talking to him and whistling and using the clicker a bit, such things. And today i went to work. According to my boyfriend he started with the beep about half an hour after i was gone. Or 2) He smelled the African Grey we have at my workplace, i take care of the animals there and i scratch her sometimes when she feels up to it.
Aaaaanyway.... we got threatened with eviction so I had to do something terrible that i really regret; grab him out of the cage with my black leather gloves, because then he gets really offended and flies off to a corner and sits there quietly for a couple of hours. Tried covering his cage first, it didn't work. Then i tried to feed him peanuts, but when i put my hand in the cage he attacked it and started flying off at it so I couldn't find an alternative...
And now i feel terrible. Really depressed. I really don't know what to do with this feather monster Michael's training program doesn't seem to work on him, because everytime he has to be grabbed for whatever the reason, he reverts to flinging treats away so we never make any progress.
Anyway, I'll do whatever i need to, and I will start looking for another place to live in the morning. I just hope he stays quiet until then

P.D: just to end this horrible post on a possitive note.... Sisu can now fly. He did it during our glove argument a moment ago. went all the way from my hand to the top shelf in the corner, and he landed safely. It doesn't look like he can turn yet, but I'm sure he'll improve

[Polarn]

I sent you a link in a PM earlier with a list of articles/essays about ABA and alot regarding the ABC model, I consider it to be worth reading and I know it is hard to describe the behavior in other terms than agressive etc and to actually observe what is happening. But I think that is you make a habit of it I think it might help you out some with shaping the behaviors. couse nothing they do is really without reason, if a certain behavior is rewarding it will increase, if a behavior done has no reinforcing outcome it will lessen. pretty much simple as that... but to be able to put it into work is a whole different story, thats the hard bit... but basically the more good behaviors that is reinforced the less bad behaviors will be done since their not reinforced (unless your unwillingly reinforce something by mistake, this usually includes shouting at a screaming parrot) and in the case of a screaming parrot you can actually replace some of the screams with another behavior, especially if the screaming is for attention, then giving tons of attention for the cute little noises provides more rewarding than the high pitch screams.

If you use an Iphone (or an ipad) there is an app called "ABC Behavior Assessment" that is free. it doesnt really provide you with answers as to how to solve the solution but it sets you in a mindset to find the soution yourself by asking a set of questions (including the problem behavior, and to this you cant reply gets agressive because thats an adjective and not a verb and the parrot might not be agressive at all it has learnt that it is reinforcing to bite, something we think of as agressive (I would label it agressive too though, but it helps to think of it in actual behaviors instead of emotions or other adjectives) it will also ask you to consider settign and enviorment and also when your in the solution screen your filling out basically the same question but considers when a certain targetbehavior is achived instead of the unwanted behavior. And by filling out the app you basically end up with a list that you have created with your birds/dogs/cats or whatever behaviors and how YOU are going to sort them out. This not only helps you to think hard about what youre actually observing etc but it also gives you a list to read and reread to make sure your consistent in shaping or modelling a behavior.

Best of luck

[Ursibear]

Oh whoops... I didn't see the PM :s sorry!
But thank you Polarn, it looks good and totally worth a shot. Shame about the app tho, I have never been a fan of apple I'll let you know how it goes.

[Polarn]

the app may be available for andriod as well though, I dont know...

Anyways everything the app provides really is to force you to make an ABC analysis in order to fill oput the behavior list... so reading what I linked you will provide you with the information (some on the surface) what you actually would need to know in order to even complete one behavior input on the phoneapplication. and there are some examples in that reading of ABC analysis to give you an idea how to write em down on paper instead and possible changes you can make to achive what you want. but the most absolute basic description ever attempted is : you change A or C to affect B (antecedent, behavior, and consequence).

[Eurycerus]

Aaaaanyway.... we got threatened with eviction so I had to do something terrible that i really regret; grab him out of the cage with my black leather gloves, because then he gets really offended and flies off to a corner and sits there quietly for a couple of hours. Tried covering his cage first, it didn't work. Then i tried to feed him peanuts, but when i put my hand in the cage he attacked it and started flying off at it so I couldn't find an alternative...

Anyway, I'll do whatever i need to, and I will start looking for another place to live in the morning. I just hope he stays quiet until then

It sounds like you're doing ALOT with your parrot each day. That is extremely overwhelming for a parrot that you recently got. I am very careful to not overload Nika and I think no parrot, or even other animal for that matter, likes too many things going on all at once. It's very confusing for your parrot and can cause some serious backlash. AKA one step forward five steps back. This is why Michael's training appears to not work. You are ruining the trust. Only within the last two weeks have we worked up to me being able to fully grab her and pick her up and flip her over, for a treat of course. I've had her for nearly three months! I can also grab her wings now, but I am certain if I just came over and grabbed her out of her cage she'd be pissed and I would ruin all the trust I've built.

I have never grabbed Nika out of her cage ever. I think it would cause serious trust issues for me to invade her space, pick her up and do what I want with her. I always make sure I have enough time to allow her to come to the front of the cage and for me to ask her to step up (which takes probably a minute). I would suggest you NEVER do that again unless there's a fire threatening your house or other emergency. It's no wonder your parrot is cranky! Do you have a friend or family member's house that you can bring your parrot to and hang out at when you don't have work? You could work through some stuff and not worry about upsetting your landlord. Also Nika is always more well behaved in a strange environment. Good luck finding a new place. :/ I'm very happy that the old lady underneath me has never complained.

In addition, Nika screams quite a bit on Mondays, the day after the weekend, because she's sad and lonely that we spent time together on the weekend and suddenly I abandon her again. I feel bad but there's not much I can do except provide toys, music, and a window to look out of. :/ But it could be a combination of your parrot being jealous and you being gone suddenly.

Cage covering only works if it effectively blocks out the light. Try a thicker material next time. :]

[Polarn]

Thing is though I'm not that sure covering the cage to block out the light during non sleeping hours is the most rewarding experience, or healthy for the mental health either. And if your unlucky it'll actually frighten her instead, but that would be visible as "stress" when you pull out the blanket.

[Eurycerus]

I agree but it's WAAAY better than physically grabbing your parrot, in my opinion. It was just a suggestion for the extreme circumstance that she was placed in.

[Polarn]

aye agree totally in it being better than grabbing it.