I have failed Katie!

[susiequ53]

I know I have done something horribly wrong but don't know what. It could possibly be several things. Sadly, Katie, the Yellow Naped Amazon has crossed over to the dark side I'm thinking it all has to do with the introduction of an Alexandrine Parakeet (10yrs old) named Ali and a young parrot of 8 months named Sonic. Katie has turned surly and hateful. Honestly, Evil would be more befitting! All the love and bonding we had accomplished has long gone.The Alexandrine is super sugar sweet but Katie will have nothing to do with her. That's fine. I have no problem with that. But the younger parrot! Now that's another issue altogether! I can not leave the two out together even with me present. Katie will charge and attack ME if I get anywhere close to Sonic. Katie was never sexed so for all I know, she is a he! Sonic is female or so I was told. Katie only wants to be with Sonic, regurgitating all over the little birds face that readily begs for it. Jeeze! It's a bit disgusting. But honestly, there is no more of the sweet Katie I briefly knew. I've been replaced! And she is literally fighting me. If I look at her directly, there is instant eye pinning and fight stance. If I so much as touch Sonic or make any affectionate moves to her, Katie is like a rooster getting ready to flog the daylights out of me. I have to be very careful not to turn my back on her. Have I totally screwed up or what? The younger parrot is very tame and loves me but how is this going to play out? Could they actually mate? I definitely don't want that! Katie is increasingly becoming more aggressive and possessive to this little bird.. What do I DO now?? I feel I have failed miserably! I was supposed to be helping Katie recuperate from her horrible past and it looks like I am an even worse keeper than her original owner. Does this mean I should find a new and better home for Katie? I've screwed up. Help please?

[pennyandrocky]

do you have any tents or small dark places for them to crawl into? if you do get rid of them. i read somewhere you can change lighting and diet to discourage mating behavior. i would seperate them for a while. the bond isn't broken and i don't think you failed at all. no they can't breed either but if you have a male and female the female could lay an egg but there won't be a baby to hatch. when my mya laid an egg my mother actually got excited wondering what would hatch from a mix of her and my male penny until i told her it doesn't work that way.

[GreenWing]

Was Katie your first bird and you added more to the family? Without knowing details, it sounds like Katie is in love with Sonic and is being territorial of the nest?

Can you give some more background info?

[susiequ53]

Was Katie your first bird and you added more to the family? Without knowing details, it sounds like Katie is in love with Sonic and is being territorial of the nest?

Can you give some more background info?

Hi.Sorry the reply took so long. Life! OK Katie was a re-homed Yellow Naped Amazon of 25 years old. Her previous owner was in his 80's and passed. The gentleman's wife was afraid of Katie because Katie had not had much in the way of love and training. So essentially, she was owned for 25 years by one owner and no social contact with other people or birds. There is a whole other topic and history on Katie from past August named update on Katie. After a couple week acclamation to me and her new home, I placed her with the rest of my feathered family. Her only issues were with me, not the others. Along comes others in need of a forever home 2 and 3 months later. The newest addition is a wonderful 10 to 12 year old Alexandrine Parakeet (Ali) or I think some people call them Ring Necks. And, finally, the baby of the bunch, a 6 month old Quaker (Sonic). Since the last adoptee, yes Katie has become more distant and hostile. Guess I can understand that even tho I kept on wanting and trying to have one on one time but she wants nothing to do with me. Hence, the "love affair dance" going on with Sonic. However, yesterday while I had Sonic out, he/she did grab her by the neck :/ and then charged me. She landed in the floor so I let her walk around and back to her own cage without responding to her. Today, she is on top of Sonic's cage feeding her and challenging me to get close. Jeeze! Katie has crossed over to the dark side! I really am thinking she needs to be a single bird instead of a flocked family. This has to be as stressful on her as it is for me!

[friend2parrots]

from Katie's body language and behavior that you have described, I agree with Greenwing - it defintely seems to me that she/he has fallen in love with Sonic. Katie seems to have chosen Sonic as her/his mate, and now sees you as a threat to the happy couple they could make.

I don't think that Katie hates you - he is simply doing what is natural to all parrots when they fall in love - he is trying to defend his love interest (Sonic) from outsiders until Sonic reciprocates the interest and "chooses" Katie in turn. If that happens, they will become a parrot couple at an emotional level. parrots of different species CAN choose each other as mates at an emotional level, and may even try to mate. i agree with pennyandrocky that they cant breed, but Sonic may lay an egg now or at some later point, and that reducing the number of hours of light per day will help prevent Sonic from laying eggs.

You have not failed Katie. in her little birdie brain and heart she will ALWAYS and FOREVER remember the love and kindness that you shown her. most parrots, show aggression to any individual, bird or human, that threatens their courtship of a potential mate. Katie's feeding of Sonic is part of the courtship ritual to win Sonic's affection.

you do not have to rehome your Katie. Katie does remember the love and bonding that you share. its just that Katie needs some time to figure out what's going on with this new courtship with Sonic. And guess what, this courtship can take a LONG time, because Sonic is still a baby (6 months) and may not have much of a clue whats going on.

I would say just give Katie some time. I think its actually wonderful that Katie, a rescued, rehomed bird with a socially deprived past, trusts his new home enough to work up the courage to engage in courtship. it is an indication of how comfortable you have made him feel. so you should actually be congratulating yourself!

i agree w/ pennyandrocky that separate out of cage times would be a good idea.

[susiequ53]

Okay. Better educated and feeling a bit better thanks to the reply's. I miss Katie though (the bonding process we were achieving) and I am discovering parrots are a whole different breed than I ever knew! They're as fickle as humans! I will wait out this game and see what unfolds. I continue to talk to Katie as if we were still best of friends but she refuses to step up or respond in any way other than aggression. Question... if Katie truly is a female, could she be having maternal instincts towards the baby instead of the whole love thing? Just a thought. Anyway, thanks again for the advise. I thought I had quite a bit of bird know-how and knowledge but was I ever wrong! This is a daily learning experience lol!

[friend2parrots]

Katie will continue to be aggressive during this period, so you should be VERY careful handling him. I am calling Katie a him because I suspect Katie is a male. From your earlier posts about his behavior in August when you first got him, and the fact that he was courting you as well (regurgitating on your cheek) leads me to think that Katie is in fact a male.

Asking Katie to step up now is just not going to work. he will refuse you. in his mind, you are just an interference to his courtship. handling him could be - and I should have mentioned this in the last post actually - very dangerous right now if you don't know what you are doing. the good news is that Amazons are "what you see is what you get" birds, unless someone has overtly physically abused the animal and forced it to exhibit confused body language.

so the best advice I can offer you at this point, for your own safety and for the future of your relationship with Katie, is:

1. take him to the avian vet and get him sexed, through a blood test.
2. ask the vet about Amazon hormonal surges, and he may be able to advise you on how to control your environment to minimize hormone levels in your bird (usually less light helps. he may have more tips).
3. read up on bird body language, esp. Amazon body language. A good place to begin is Greg Glendell's excellent book "Amazon Parrots". get a hold of every book you can on Amazon parrot body language. some of the older books don;t talk about this enough. but theyre still worth owning for whatever other tips they can offer you.
4. from this second onwards, watch Katie's body language VERY CLOSELY. don't push his limits. stay away when you see the signs of aggression. reward calm behavior. its going to take a lot of close observation on your part to basically TRAIN him to be sweet to you - you will be working toward the long term goal of overriding his natural aggression (caused by courtship or whatever) with the conditioned response of good behaviors taught through positive reinforcement.
5. don't handle Sonic in front of him. in his mind, you are courting his love interest. he will resent you for it.

I am not entirely sure how this will all play out in your household, given the number of different birds that are living in your bird room, each one with a mind of its own, each one wondering where it fits into the flock, and the larger scheme of things. you are going to have to watch all your birds body language very closely to prevent Katie's aggression from affecting them. the fact that Katie "grabbed Sonic's neck" as you mention in the previous post is a sign that he is capable of displaced aggression. so you should put a folded quilt over his cage when any other bird is out so that other birds dont get their feet ripped off if they land on Katie's cage.

there are a lot of little things like this that you will have to work out to ensure sound flock dynamics, and safety for yourself and for your other birds. its going to be challenging with so many birds, of different species, different ages, different backgrounds, different sexes. research as much as you can about parrot aggression and behavior, and don't handle any of your birds casually like pets, but rather, as displaced wild animals that each have all their natural instincts intact. each action with your birds should be premeditated, for your own safety.

I commend you for your kind heart in taking all these lovely darlings into your home, and I believe that things will eventually work out for the best for all of you.

[liz]

Birds don't have to be male or female to have parental instincts.

Katie knows the little one is a baby. It is like the teenage girls from disfunctional families who get pregnant just so they will have someone to love and love them.

My cockatiels all care for any baby added to the flock. It doesn't matter if they are male or female. Lemone' (a male) fed another's baby long after the others stopped feeding it. He just wanted it to stay a baby.

Take it easy on Katie and let her be a momma. As the baby grows her personality will change.

[susiequ53]

Great advise! You guys are the Best! I do have several books on Amazons and parrots but none of them seem to address Katie's issues but in truth, I am learning more from the responses here so again thank you. There is one issue I don't know how to handle and that is covering Katie's cage. I don't know what happened to her in her other life but she literally freaks out if I come near her with any type of cover. I have tried to slide one from the back and all other directions and she goes into a panic mode so I have been leaving her uncovered. I have an idea she had a blanket thrown over her at some point. Should I try again?? Seems like that will only add to her angst towards me! Suggestions?

[marie83]

I don't know if it will help but Ollie hated his cover to start off with, we started using thick large towels (use the type they cant catch their claws in) over 3 sides and put them over the cage whilst he is still out, then put him back in his cage and dropped the front towel down so his cage was entirely covered and this worked alot better. You may need to introduce the towels bit by bit though and possibly folded up small to start with. Put one on the top of the cage folded up, then unfold it, then add a second towel and so on as she gets used to them being there.
Harlie on the other hand, we have never been able to cover up in any way without her freaking out.