Unconventional methods?

[hnhobu]

We all have the little things that we do with our bird that other people tell us that we shouldn't, and I wonder what yours are? My list of things is rather long, as I think that certain things are slightly ridiculous... but whenever I do these things, I am always very careful and make sure that things don't get out of control.

For example: Tonight I let my bird ride around on my cat's back. My cat paid little to no attention, and didn't mind the passenger at all. Of course, I kept an eye on them the whole time and were always within an arms reach. EDIT: I do view this as not 100% because Cassette could chew on Ziggie's fur, and that could cause problems..

It's also rare that my bird sleeps in his cage. Most nights he falls asleep on either me or my husband while we're in bed, and we usually end up moving him into his 'cuddle spot'' which is a hoodie scrunched up on my nightstand before we fall asleep. Actually, to be honest, it's rare that he's in his cage at all unless he wants to eat. As long as we're home, his door is always open and he has free reign. As I'm typing this he just flew down from his cage and has waddled his way down the hall and onto my husband's shoulder. EDIT: My cats are not allowed in the room that we sleep in to eliminate danger..

Oh, and I kiss my bird and let him eat off of my tongue if he's afraid to try something new. I know that this is very controversial, but my avian vet says that it's okay with lovebirds as they're immune to a lot of things and more sturdy.

So, what are the little things that you do that other people would shame you for?

Please, everyone, be respectful.

[marie83]

I wouldn't do anything high risk (sorry but I really think the things you have mentioned are very high risk)

I do pet my birds anywhere though even though I'm told head only, I no longer believe in certain places too stimulating such as under the wings, I do believe in keeping the duration short though wherever you touch, even on the head. Like I said on another post, theres a difference to a quick peck on the lips or a long snog. I'm not saying this is right or wrong but it works for me. I had a very close bond with some of my birds but they've never regurgitated for me and only one has tried to mate my hand.

I don't close the curtains (depending on the bird) all mine are window aware. I do close them slightly for Harlie as she is such a terrible flier and doesn't have good flying strength to co-ordinate her flights at times.

I will very very occasionally feed them junk, like salted crisps or a bit of pizza crust, but it is literally a crumb and is rare, definitely less than 6 times a year.

I will let Ollie chew my pens whilst I'm working as he cannot break them, I do keep a very close eye to make sure he isn't getting too close to the ink end though.

I will keep the bird out when I'm eating my dinner but if I hear them take flight I hover my hands over my plate so they cannot land in or next to it until they have landed somewhere.

I'm sure theres other stuff but cant think right now.

[Eurycerus]

I wouldn't do anything high risk (sorry but I really think the things you have mentioned are very high risk)

I tend to agree that there is a line between doing things that are different and special and doing something dangerous with your pets or feathery friends.

I will sometimes feed Nika people food that might not be totally healthy, but it's a very tiny amount. She likes breakfast cereals like cheerios or flakes. She's gotten bits of tortilla chips before, and a bit of dinner like pasta and noodles.

I won't do anything to scare my parrots, but I've never had to worry about slowly introducing a toy or new perch. In addition, I drag Nika where ever I go on weekends because I would hate to leave her and she likes being with people more than by herself. Diggy will be taking part in that soon too, and probably some people would be worried about upsetting their parrot's schedule. I figure it's good to change up things, to an extent, so that they don't freak out if I'm forced to move, or there's some other change in my life that will affect theirs. Hopefully they won't turn to plucking or other problems if they are used to changes in their environment already.

For me other aspects of Nika (and now Diggy's lives) are very structured to permit the bond of trust to form (or grow stronger), keep them healthy, and to reduce hormonal behaviors, this includes sleeping in their covered cage, structured interaction in and out of the cage, and healthy food. I figure as I continue to get to know them I may grow more lenient in the interaction time with me and other people, but probably not their bedtime or food.

Edit: additional information

[Michael]

Sorry but there's a difference between doing something unconventional and putting your bird in harm's way...

I was going to write about some of the unconventional training approaches I use or some fun things I do with the birds, but since this thread is about doing things to your bird that you shouldn't I don't want to participate in it.

[cml]

Sorry but there's a difference between doing something unconventional and putting your bird in harm's way...

...but since this thread is about doing things to your bird that you shouldn't I don't want to participate in it.

Agreed.

Why are you doing this hnhobu? I mean no disrespect, but these actions will probably lead to your bird's death sooner or later.

Especially so the cat and bird interaction. Yes, both of them might enjoy each others company, but all it takes is one split of second of instinct from your cat, and poff, your bird is dead.
Being within an arms length isnt going to save your bird, your cat will break your birds neck before you have even registered whats happening (humans are slow to react, a second is all it takes).

As I said, I really mean no disrespect, but I really really cant see why you are doing this? Its things that may lead to the death of your bird, and you do it willingly?

[hnhobu]

Don't worry, I don't feel like anyone is being disrespectful.

I do these things because I feel that if I didn't, my bird's life wouldn't be as full. I completely understand your concern, and when I originally got Cassette I wasn't going to let the bird or the cats interact but with time that has changed. I by no means trust my cat alone with Cassette, but my cat is beyond domesticated and very... wimpish. So while we're around, he's safe.

[ginger]

You really think that all these things you do are helping your bird live a full life? Seriously! Have you not done any research about the things you are doing? Bacteria from a cat's saliva is deadly to birds, human saliva is not much better. Sleeping with your bird in bed? Really!??!! C'mon! The only thing that is going to be "full" is your cat when it eats your bird! I can't believe that you are not ashamed of your behavior with respect to your bird. Not only that, but you actually seem to be proud of the behavior. So sad that you actually have such little respect for your bird's life. Oh, and I think this is as "respectful" as I can be.

Of course there is the possibility that you do none of these things and you're just looking for the shock value for your own amusement.

[hnhobu]

Sorry but there's a difference between doing something unconventional and putting your bird in harm's way...

I was going to write about some of the unconventional training approaches I use or some fun things I do with the birds, but since this thread is about doing things to your bird that you shouldn't I don't want to participate in it.

Michael, I wouldn't mind those tips at all.

It seems that you guys think that I let my pets interact freely and that my bird's life lacks structure, but that is not the case. My cats and birds do not touch each other, they are simply around each other. My bird does not chew on my cat's fur, not does my cat lick my bird. As I said, they are closely monitored and never left alone. Ever. Usually one of us has our hand on our cat at all times when the bird is around. I live in a small apartment and keeping Cassette and my cats separate would be nearly impossible unless I left Cassette in his cage all of the time.

Since I researched human saliva and birds I have stopped feeding him out of my mouth and used other methods (like, making him jealous by eating the food myself and not allowing him to). I am also letting Cassette's wings grow out just in case something happens when we're gone and he needs to be able to fly.

And I do not SLEEP with my bird. Never have I fallen asleep with my bird next to me, as I don't want to risk suffocating him. Cassette sleeps in his own 'bed' away from ours and sleeps through the night like all birds do. My cats are not allowed in the room we sleep in when we are sleeping.

I have done research on living cage free with birds, and if it weren't for my cats that is exactly what I would be doing because my lifestyle permits it. I understand and appreciate your concern, but I do not think that you're in a place where you can tell me that I do not care for my bird's life. That is beyond disrespectful, it is just plain rude.

Obviously, this thread was a mistake. It was my attempt at making the forums a friendlier place for people who do unconventional things (such as seed diets, cage free, aloe baths, etc etc etc) because I know how stressful and anxiety ridden parrot ownership can be for some, but it has turned into something different. Whenever a moderator happens upon it I would appreciate it if they would lock it.

[Eurycerus]

Obviously, this thread was a mistake. It was my attempt at making the forums a friendlier place for people who do unconventional things (such as seed diets, cage free, aloe baths, etc etc etc) because I know how stressful and anxiety ridden parrot ownership can be for some, but it has turned into something different. Whenever a moderator happens upon it I would appreciate it if they would lock it.

I believe there's a difference between doing something unconventional and innovative, like what Grey_Moon has done with Jacko's diet, compared to regressing back to methods of parrot care that have been proven to be unsafe. That's my personal opinion. For example, this is why an all seed diet is not uncoventional. It has been studied and proven to be lacking in required nutrients (http://exoticpets.about.com/cs/birds/a/parrotdiets.htm) it is practiced by people who are ignorant or by people purposefully choosing to not give their parrot the best care (or of course parrots having difficulty switching to a healthier diet). However, looking into newer better ways to provide nourishment for your parrot to provide for their complex needs is unconventional. There are other examples I could provide.

I actually do think a cage free parrot is unconventional though so many considerations would have to be made I just don't think I could make it safe for my little feathery friend, but that's up to each individual person. I suppose it could be possible if I owned my home and made various living spaces into an aviary type situation, but that would be mighty difficult, though possible!

That's just my perspective on the matter. We all make choices in our lives, and hopefully we make the right ones. I know I've made wrong choices many times and will probably continue to do so, in my life in general and with the animals under my care, I just try to do the best I can and continue to learn.

[hnhobu]

I believe there's a difference between doing something unconventional and innovative, like what Grey_Moon has done with Jacko's diet, compared to regressing back to methods of parrot care that have been proven to be unsafe.

I agree with this and am kind of ashamed at some of the things I put on that list... perhaps I was just a bit irritated by the previous poster and wasn't thinking clearly.

I am currently trying to switch Cassette to a pellet-based diet after figuring out that I would not be able to give him the balances diet that he needs with seeds and vegetables alone. And even though Harrison's is rather expensive, it's worth it to know that I will have a healthier bird who doesn't in ingesting additives or fillers.

I actually do think a cage free parrot is unconventional though so many considerations would have to be made I just don't think I could make it safe for my little feathery friend, but that's up to each individual person. I suppose it could be possible if I owned my home and made various living spaces into an aviary type situation, but that would be mighty difficult, though possible!

Living cage free with birds and very difficult and is not for everyone by any means. If it weren't for my cats, my life would permit it as my apartment is small enough that he would be easy to find is hiding, there are no ceiling fans, there is only one door to the outdoors, I only use natural methods to clean surfaces, I am always home, etc etc etc.

I know I've made wrong choices many times and will probably continue to do so, in my life in general and with the animals under my care, I just try to do the best I can and continue to learn.

As do I. I think that people are misunderstanding me and translating what I'm saying into carelessness. If I had my way, I would of gotten rid of the cats when I found Cassette (he was a rescue), but I have to consider my husband as well. Like I said, if I didn't have my pets around each other Cassette would never be out of his cage and I just don't think that's fair for him

Edit:

After doing some google searching to really see if what I was doing with my cats was wrong, I came upon this list. I have bolded the things I have already done and will be investing in a water bottle.

Such is the scene in my living room when cat or bird becomes frisky. Living with a cat and birds need not be a constant worry. While Sylvester and Tweety fight it out on the television screen, my cat usually ignores the chirps coming from the other end of the living room.
Not every cat/bird relationship will work out as nicely as mine, but following are some tips to help ease the strain.

1) Assure the cat you still care for him/her.
When I brought my birds into my home, my cat ignored me for days. Her loving, doting owner had suddenly found somebody new to play with. Assuring your cat that you still care for it, will help alleviate any jealousy. It's jealousy that drives the cat to dive for the feathered dinners stuck behind bars. Give plenty of attention to both pets, and soon the cat will see the bird as just another member of the family.

2) Don't court danger.
Only let your bird out to play when he can be supervised. A bird with his wings clipped suddenly becomes a meal on the run to your cat. In addition, don't place the cage where kitty can knock it over and free its terrified inhabitants. If your cage stands on the floor, make sure that it is sturdy enough to withstand the occasional bump by the human or feline members of the family.

3) Discipline
If you do not want your cat anywhere near the bird cages, then invest in a water gun. This humane (and inexpensive) way of disciplining your cat will soon teach it that the birds are off limits.
The same thing goes for your birds. If you have one of the larger species, that thinks cat fur is a delicacy, teach it not to chew on the cat when it is near. Just like children, both parties in a dispute need discipline.

4) Be Patient.
The first hours or days of cohabitation may be worrisome, but soon, that cat will ignore the chirps. Kitty will lay in a beam of sunshine, content that she or he is still the center of your life.
These four rules work well with smaller birds such as finches and parakeets. Larger birds will require more attention and patience, although the cat may not be as likely to try and attack a bird that may be as large as it is.

All may not be rosy, however, when an owner decides to mix cats and birds. An important consideration is that the cat MUST never be allowed to scratch or bite at a bird. Cats (and dogs) carry a small, gram-negative organism in their saliva called Pasteurella Multicocida. This bacteria causes osteoarthritis, which leads to septicemia and death, if introduced into a bird by a bite or a scratch.

If a bird is bitten, it has an 8-12 hour window before osteoarthritis occurs. This condition, which also affects older humans, causes swelling and damage to the joints, and the birds become paralyzed. If this is left untreated, septicemia, or blood poisoning, occurs which results in death. The best way to treat a cat bite is with tetracycline derivative such as docicycline or vibramycin.
Having birds and cats need not be a strenuous affair. With a little love, some patience, and some vigilance, your birds and cats will get along like old friends.

After reading threads and articles written by people who have both birds and cats, I feel more confident than ever about my choice to live with both birds and cats. Perhaps I will do a bit more training to make their 'interactions' even safer, but I in no way shape or form believe I'm putting my bird in danger or setting him up for death. In fact, most of the training will be done to the bird, not the cat.