UNUSED EGG CARTONS QUESTION

[Maria]

Regarding the following criteria, emailed back to me by a chicken supply/breeder/farm (which the American Federation of Aviculture [AFA] referred me to) - please let me know if the following criteria is safe for parrots - regarding their unused egg cartons. The AFA said they supply UNMARKED egg cartons (meaning they don't have any printing at all on the outside of the carton). If the criteria is safe, then I will purchase them to make foraging toys for my parrot, and this may be a good source for everyone to order them as well. You can order them online from their website, which I will also supply. I also asked this place to provide me with which link on their website for these cartons, so I can view them/photo(s).

The criteria I let him know which was needed, per my inquiring was:
Criteria they would need to meet so that they're non-toxic:

. not treated with anything like preservatives, coatings, sealants, chemicals, pesticides
. Egg cartons used, of course, has the potential to carry and develop disease and bacteria, like salmonella; so of course it would definitely have to have never been used.
. cardboard, NOT foam

They said they have them unmarked, unused egg cartons for sale. Upon them providing the link for the photo of these egg cartons, they also told me that they are not purple anymore, that they need to update their picture.

I then said in email back the following:
" only basically vegetable food coloring, and non-toxic inks or paints for children toys are safe for parrots. Dyes have chemicals in them, and are toxic to parrots. Some water based dyes may be ok. Purple? For any coloring whatsoever on the cardboard of the egg cartons, I would need to know specifically what it is. They will be used to make parrot toys, and chewed up by the parrot, so they can’t be harmful, toxic. Or do you have any which are not colored, and are just the plain cardboard? "

Their email response back was then the following:
" As I mentioned in my email previously the cartons are no longer died purple. They are made from recycled paper and are brand new. "

Here is my question also to you guys and gals on this thread:
"Recycled paper" ?????? Is "recycled" safe? Are any types of chemicals used to recycle stuff? Anything toxic used for recycling stuff?

Thanks so much. If all the criteria mentioned here would NOT meet the "safe" list for birds, then there is no reason to provide the link for ordering them. If all criteria meets safety for birds and non-toxic, non harmful, then I will provide the information where to get them.

Here is their pricing on the cartons:
Buy 50 or more for $0.50 each
Buy 100 or more for $0.36 each
Buy 250 or more for $0.38 each

and $19.95 for 25 of them.

[friend2parrots]

First of all, thank you SO much Maria, for all the posts that you have made in this forum about DIY toys. I have learned a lot from your ideas!

re: the egg cartons,

Their email response back was then the following: " As I mentioned in my email previously the cartons are no longer died purple. They are made from recycled paper and are brand new. "Here is my question also to you guys and gals on this thread:"Recycled paper" ?????? Is "recycled" safe? Are any types of chemicals used to recycle stuff? Anything toxic used for recycling stuff?

I did a google search, entering "chemicals used for recycling paper" and came up with several hits of articles describing the process of recycling paper. it appears that unfortunately they do use chemicals, for deinking, softening, bleaching and drying.

THis is from the ehow.com article:

" The paper recycling process, while using fewer chemicals and polluting less than virgin paper, still impacts the environment. Not all recycled paper is the same. Much recycled paper contains a mix of virgin and recycled pulp to strengthen deteriorating fibers. The higher the content of recycled pulp, the less chemicals needed for bleaching. Not all recycling plants use the same processes and chemicals, and some are more harmful to the environment than others. "

" Surfactants

Various types of surfactants are used in the de-inking process. Some are toxic while others are sugar or protein based. Scientists are also developing mechanical and enzyme-based processes for de-inking that are chemical-free.


Hydrogen Peroxide

This is a common, environmentally benign bleaching agent used as an alternative to chlorine.

Sodium Hydrosulfite

This is also commonly used to reduce the colors in recycled paper pulp. It produces the relatively benign byproduct sodium bisulfite.


Chlorine

Chlorine gas and hypochlorites are more commonly used to bleach virgin paper pulp, but can be used in recycled paper as well. Chlorine produces dioxin, a toxic, carcinogenic chemical that makes its way into the air and water. "

Here is the link for the article:

http://www.ehow.com/facts_5731899_chemi ... mills.html

what do you think?

i wonder if UN-recycled cardboard egg cartons are available?

[Maria]

friend2parrots:

hmmmm, I think it's not safe. I'm going to email the company back, thanking them for letting me know that it's recycled, that chemicals are used in recycling which would not be safe for parrots for this purpose. I wouldn't give it to MY parrot!

Here is a section I came across about how paper is recycled also, it's reflecting it involves chemicals also, and I think the information you found is more detailed. This is all enough for me to say, no, no, and double and triple NO! LOL. I'm glad we're such good mommies and daddies to our parrots

Paper
Paper is made of tiny fibers. Because these fibers eventually become weak, paper cannot be recycled forever. Most types of paper can be recycled, but some types—those with a glossy or waxy coating—are too expensive to recycle. When you recycle paper, you should try to separate newsprint, white paper and cardboard. Here’s a look at the recycling process for paper.

You bring your paper to the recycling center.
The paper is sorted and transported to a pulping facility.
The paper is soaked and heated in huge vats, becoming pulp. Chemicals in the liquid separate the ink from the paper.
The pulp is screened and cleaned to remove glue, other debris and any remaining ink.
The pulp is refined and beaten to make it ready to become paper again.
The pulp is fed into a machine that spits out the pulp onto a flat moving screen where it forms sheets.
The sheets are rolled and dried and ready for their new life.

This was at this link, which also tells how other mediums are recycled: (glass, plastic, aluminum)

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0934633.html

I'm glad we're sure putting our thinking caps on! Now, your good thought is could we find ones which are not recycled. That would probably be hard to find, but at least we now found out through this research that - that is definately another criteria which needs to be met, no recycled stuff!? hmmmmm. Interesting. This is strange, as humans use recycled stuff all the time. The article info you posted does reveal that scientists are trying to research ways to recycle safer hmmmm. Makes you wonder, and I would imagine the toys made for children and infants are therefore NOT made using recycled plastics (like teethers and things like that!) !?!? LOL !!!!

In my email I also asked if there was any possibility they could point me in the direction of getting UN-recycled ones.

[friend2parrots]

i've been thinking about this egg-carton issue a bit more, and thought again about what the article I quoted from above said:

quote="friend2parrots"]" The paper recycling process, while using fewer chemicals and polluting less than virgin paper, still impacts the environment. [/quote]

given this, now I'm wondering, is UN-recycled cardboard safer, if its made from "virgin paper" ?

cardboard egg cartons are a wonderful toy material, as is any cardboard that parrots can shred, so I'm a little bummed to learn that so many chemicals are used in paper manufacture and recycling.
it seems that chemicals are necessary to make both UN-recycled AND recycled paper.

where does that leave us, though? I'm not sure - common sense tells me that shredding cardboard is a harmless enough activity for a parrot, but I also don't want to expose my bird to chemicals...

[Maria]

I know what you mean. It could open up a whole can of worms. I don't think I would let ourselves worry about it too much, if it is UN-recycled. I don't think too many things are pointing to UNrecycled stuff. I had a hunch that the process of recycling had to do with chemicals and/or fire/burning/melting down. So we double checked this hunch, and found that we were right, and not to use it. And my parrot shop had said you can basically use any piece of cardboard which has no printing on it, and is clean, of course. I used cardboard from inside the case of water bottles I buy, and from inside of the big box of assorted crackers I buy - both from costco, both have no printing on them. My parrot has not gotten sick. I would think if they're putting these things in, next to, and surrounding food, this packaging is not toxic because it therefore involves human consumption.

The birds also have to be happy. And it's a personal decision you just make from item to item, do research the best you can, etc. I'd told my parrot shop, for example, like I use this cardboard from the crackers, and the water, and they said, yeah, that's fine.

The good that came out of this is that we now know to point in the direction to see if there's a way we might be able to get UN-recycled, plain, clean, unused egg cartons. Even if there happens to be any printing on them, it may be possible to take the printed parts off, and use the rest of it. Just cut off, cutting off the tops, etc., and use the bottom parts, putting treats in the cups, folding over, securing closed with zip ties or cotton string (zip ties safer.), supervise him playing with it, etc.

As in this video:
easy to make toys for parrots (with bottom part of egg cartons!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61KURNM5 ... re=related

I'm sure you can also hang them in the cage, if you drill holes through the middle of them. Jute rope would be safe to use for this too.

Anytime, your welcome, for thanking me for posting lots of ideas and info and stuff in "The Big Homemade Toy Thread". Although, I think it would be a better thread if more people would post responses, thoughts, ideas, and answer the questions I'd brought forth in that thread too, but no body really seems to.

[Maria]

Although, as you can see in that video, it is showing there are indeed eggs in the carton which he used!

[Maria]

WAIT A MINUTE! Now the first thing that video also says is "with the recycled, compressed paper" !

Oh now I'm really lost, the cartons he's using are recycled!?!?!?

LOL !! Go figure!

I think this is a Michael input question!

Michael are you around here? What's safe, and what's not as far as egg cartons. And where the heck can we get the safe ones?! LOL !

[Maria]

When I emailed them,

Thank you so much for letting me know they're "recycled". The chemicals used for the recycling process of paper would not be safe for parrots for this purpose, and would be toxic, they could get sick. It's not something I would chance. Any possibility you could point me in the direction of UN-recycled cardboard egg cartons are available?

Here is their response - so this is another place we might check out for the criteria to meet for these. I also just sent them another email saying, "You are just the BEST for trying to refer me else where that you might think would be a bird safe medium. Thanks so much for caring. Due to that, I will DEFINATELY come back to you for stuff too"

Maria,

I know eggcartons.com may be able to help you on your quest. Good luck, but they are a competitor so if you need anything else come back here!!

Best Regards,
Carl
Stromberg's Chicks and Game Birds Unlimited
100 York Street
Pine River, MN 56474

[Maria]

Here is the email I just sent them, so let's see what happens! Maybe this is a good source for this!

UNUSED - UNMARKED - NON-RECYCLED(EGGCARTONS)
Monday, December 17, 2012 1:58 PM
From: "Maria"
To: email@eggcartons.com

Unless it specifically says the word "Recycled" in the description, it is NOT recycled?????

Is this correct?

As I'm noticing per your website, regarding your egg cartons, that some do not say recycled, but some do. Under blank paper egg cartons page.

There is a whole group of parrot and bird lovers, - domestic birds, myself included, who are also on a parrot forum, and we're looking to locate plain bird safe egg cartons, to use to make foraging toys for our parrots. Parrots will chew them up (tearing/shredding), getting the treats out which we put inside the cups.

Here is the criteria they have to meet for this, please let me know if you have egg cartons which meet this criteria, and if so, I will order them from you, as well as put a post on the forum, where other parrot lovers can get them. One of the criteria is that it can NOT be recycled. The chemicals used in the recycling process would be toxic to birds and not safe to use for this purpose. Nothing toxic. Just plain, paper or cardboard, UN-treated, etc. Please read the criteria closely. Thanks so much.

Colors/ink used on the egg cartons.
What is used for this coloring? These markings. Food coloring? Paint? Ink? Dye? Anything toxic? Any kinds of chemicals?

Preservatives or pesticides:
Are the cartons treated with anything? Any type of preservatives to make them last longer, or pesticides to keep bugs away from them?


REASONS:
Being used to make toys for parrots. Many parrot and bird owners, via theparrotforum.com – are exploring unused egg cartons to make parrot toys with for their parrots.

Parrots will chew them up (tearing/shredding).

Therefore anything regarding the above would be toxic to parrots, and they could get sick and die.

Has to be untreated, with no pesticides, chemicals or paint, or preservatives.

They cannot have been sprayed or treated with anything to preserve them or to keep bugs away.

The only thing that can be used for coloring for parrot/bird toys is food coloring or non-toxic child safe inks or paints (like what is on alphabet wooden blocks for children). Some water based dyes may be ok. Otherwise no dyes or paints, because they have chemicals in them.

Egg cartons used, of course, has the potential to carry and develop disease and bacteria, like salmonella; so of course it would definitely have to have never been used.

Cardboard, NOT foam

NOT made from recycled paper or cardboard. The chemicals used in the recycling process is not bird safe and would be toxic to birds.

If you have any which are NOT marked (plain), not treated, and are cardboard, not foam, that would be ideal; then I would know that they are safe to order to be used for making parrot toys. If only the tops are marked, I can cut the tops off, while making the toys, and just used the bottoms.

They will be used to make foraging toys for parrots, putting treats in them, hanging them in the cage, etc.

If your egg cartons do not meet this criteria, might you refer me to a place where unused egg cartons meets this criteria?

Maria

[Maria]

RE: UNUSED - UNMARKED - NON-RECYCLED(EGGCARTONS)
Monday, December 24, 2012 7:01 AM
From: "Scott Stankus" <ScottS@KingSalesGroup.com>
To: "Maria"

Hi Maria,

Sorry for the delay. All of our paper cartons are made from recycled material. I do not know of a company that makes egg cartons with virgin material as it would be quite expensive. There is one type of carton that we had once made from sugarcane pulp (which is not recycled). It creates a pure white egg carton. The original company we bought them from went out of business but I am sure you could find another source if you search for it.

Sorry, I could not be more help.

Merry Christmas!

Regards,
Scott Stankus
King Sales Group Inc. | 9 Main St. Suite 1F, PO Box 302 Manchaug MA 01526-0302
Toll Free: 1-888-852-5340 | F: 508-476-7703

hmmmm that's interesting. Also, how do we know what to look for when we're deciding about whether or not just plain old cardboard is safe? (recycled or virgin). The smell? And if it is recycled it will have some kind of little speckles of stuff in it???