Diggy to the vet and toys order

[Eurycerus]

So I decided that some of Diggy's odd behavior may need a little oversight. I've only had him for four weeks now I believe and so I attributed some unusual behavior to me just not knowing him and him adjusting to his new setting. However, he seems to bob his tail, sleep, and fluff up more than Nika and it's been making me very nervous. In addition, I've concluded he overpreens, which isn't something very alarming especially because I believe he's been doing it for a long time since his feathers look similar to when I first met him, however it will be good to talk with a professional*.

I contacted the species coordinator to let her know my observations and it sounds like I'm going to be taking him to the vet. I haven't been to a vet for any reason for probably ten or fifteen years so I'm a little nervous. In addition, I really hope he's not actually sick but I kind of feel bad having Mickaboo spend money for a vet unnecessarily if he isn't sick. :/ He can be very active and is really a sweetheart so hopefully he's just acting weird and it's nothing to worry about. Maybe he's a little depressed, missing his dad (previous foster guy) or because he hasn't been able to come out since he's so hand shy. I'm pretty concerned about the many hours I'm going to have to take off work to take him there but considering how worried I've been it will make me feel better that he sees a professional.

Also I bought a bunch of fun foraging toys, bowls, and shredding toys for Nika and Diggy. I'm pretty excited. Just checked the tracking and they'll be here today! Yay! Diggy absolutely goes crazy for shreddable things. :] I'm hoping that the foraging stuff will keep Nika more occupied and less sad/screamy when I'm gone.

*Edit: Also I have a question. So I have not forced him out or forced him to step up since I've had him. We've had some accidents, but in general we work in the cage together and he still views my hand as something to be terrified of when in the cage. I've been doing the targeting near my hand but if he thinks he's going to have step on or too close to my hand he decides that's a deal breaker and instead waits till I move slightly. So now I'm going to have to get him out to bring him to the vet. How do I get him out of the cage in the friendliest way possible without wrecking everything?

[Andromeda]

It's good that you're taking Diggy to the vet, especially because over-preening can be health-related and you can't write it off as just behavioral or a harmless habit unless they have some labs to check for nutritional deficiencies or liver/kidney problems, etc.

How long have you had Nika? I'm surprised that you haven't been to the vet in so many years as it's good to take even a healthy bird to the vet for an annual check-up.

[Eurycerus]

I meant to continue the sentence but spaced out apparently (edited now). I was trying to say I'm not surprised because he has some other neurotic tendencies (strange head circles, head bobbing, beak touching) but I am happy to talk with a professional about some steps I can take. I did originally think it could be nutrient deficiency or something, but I really don't know now. I wish I could do my own lab tests. I want to try those sprays you told me about but because he's not my parrot I don't feel comfortable doing anything until I get a vet okay.

Also, yeah I feel bad about not taking Nika but honestly it's a huge hassle and I'm so busy that unless I suspect something is wrong I can't justify taking time off work to spend $200 plus dollars to some vet who I may or may not trust. I honestly put vets in the auto mechanic category in my brain. They are more than happy to unnecessarily hike their fees and charge you enormous amounts because they are "professionals". I can say that I have found an awesome mechanic (and will do anything to not go to anyone else) but I am very wary of vets (and doctors for that matter, I've had my own medical conditions and honestly it's taken years to get to the right doctors that can help). The only avian vets nearby are an hour away which for some people might not be a big deal but it is for 9 to 5 workers like myself. :/ Essentially an hour long visit means three hours total, plus getting the parrot in and out of the cage and then finally settling back down for work. I'm legitimately stressing about having to do that when I take Diggy.

I've had her for seven months now I believe. I've contemplated going to the vet to get the baseline of her blood counts and what have you, but I really think vets scam people. Even good ones charge exorbitant amounts of money and from the looks of the stories I've read, most vets are useless anyway when your parrot gets sick.

Diggy isn't my parrot and I want oversight from a professional more than I want to actually go to the vet or trust a vet. If the vet clears him as not sick then that's on their head if he has future complications, if he doesn't clear him, then I was right and have done my duty and will medicate as necessary (of course I will do my own research and make sure the vet isn't making something up).

*Edit: Not that this means anything but I grew up in a household where we didn't think too highly of vets and never took our animals unless absolutely necessary, like for vaccinations or when our old dog wasn't eating we took him in <3 loved that hairy hound.

[marie83]

Hope everything goes ok

I think you raise an important point about vets though, thats why its important to find someone before your parrot gets sick, even if you don't have yearly check ups afterwards. Mine have never had the yearly checks,although this is something I may change, though I think this will invalidate any insurance you may have so anyone with insurance needs to read their policies carefully. I really wish I hadn't gone to the first one at all so I'm glad whatever my two have wasn't an immediate threat to their lives.

[friend2parrots]

sorry to hear that Diggy needs to go to the vet. Yeah, from what you've written it does sound like its going to be a challenge getting him out of the cage into the carrier.

Diggy absolutely goes crazy for shreddable things. :]

i was wondering if youve considered placing a shreddable toy in the carrier, and a trail of shreddable toys leading to the cage entrance, and to the carrier. and then just leaving the carrier door open by the entrance to his cage. he might just be attracted to the trail enough to venture out - maybe?

[Andromeda]

The only avian vets nearby are an hour away which for some people might not be a big deal but it is for 9 to 5 workers like myself. :/ Essentially an hour long visit means three hours total, plus getting the parrot in and out of the cage and then finally settling back down for work. I'm legitimately stressing about having to do that when I take Diggy.

I've had her for seven months now I believe. I've contemplated going to the vet to get the baseline of her blood counts and what have you, but I really think vets scam people. Even good ones charge exorbitant amounts of money and from the looks of the stories I've read, most vets are useless anyway when your parrot gets sick.

Trust me, I know what you're saying about vets, my rescue Poi was sick when we adopted him and I don't know how much money I spent on tests and vet visits before he was finally diagnosed six months later, and then it took another six months to treat. It was very expensive.

However, avian vets are not always useless when your parrot is sick. Sometimes the illness is too advanced to treat or is illusive (as in Marie's case) but Jimmy is healthy today because of the diagnosis and treatment he had with an avian vet.

I understand it's very difficult and stressful for you to make time for a vet visit but since you have to bring Diggy to the vet maybe you could bring Nika while you're at it? If you have them do a CBC and avian chemistry panel on Nika at least you'd have a baseline (especially in regards to white blood cell count) which can be invaluable if she were ever to get sick in the future. Just an idea.

I am very fortunate in that my avian vet is open until 7 PM on Wednesdays and until 1 PM on Saturdays so it's easier for me to take my birds to the vet if I need to do so.

[Eurycerus]

I had been considering bringing Nika and Diggy simultaneously, so that's definitely a good idea. The woman on the phone wouldn't give me any estimates other than to simply look at Nika during a 30 minute appointment it will be $65. :/ I asked about the two panels you suggested but she wasn't helpful at providing an estimate. The $65 sounds like a joke to me. I can look at Nika and pretty accurately assess within five seconds that she's healthy and doing fine... What do they look for in the avian chemistry panel?

I made an appointment for Diggy on Friday at 11:30 PST

[marie83]

Blumming heck, that works out over double what I pay for our consulations but our bird vet isn't board certified so maybe thats the difference, I would expect to pay a bit more for an avian certified vet. I certainly dont know why they wont give you an estimate over the phone though for the tests but I guess it depends on what tests they decide to run, they can't take a massive blood sample from small birds so they may prioritize what they test for.

With Ollie they could only take enough blood for the blood count and organ function tests. The second lot of blood was supposed to be for metal toxicity and viruses but the stupid lab ran the wrong test so there wasn't enough blood for the viral tests. We ended up doing the viral tests via the faeces in the end. I dont know how much more blood they can draw from a senegal sized bird but I doubt they can do a full range of tests from one sample. This may be why they cannot give you an estimate.

[Andromeda]

I had been considering bringing Nika and Diggy simultaneously, so that's definitely a good idea. The woman on the phone wouldn't give me any estimates other than to simply look at Nika during a 30 minute appointment it will be $65. :/ I asked about the two panels you suggested but she wasn't helpful at providing an estimate. The $65 sounds like a joke to me. I can look at Nika and pretty accurately assess within five seconds that she's healthy and doing fine... What do they look for in the avian chemistry panel?

The reality of owning a bird is that it's an exotic and treating an exotic is not cheap. Visiting a board-certified avian vet is expensive. Believe it of not $65 for a physical examination is on the more reasonable side---the vet I visit here in Florida currently charges $54.50 for just a physical exam whereas when I lived in Boston they charged $95 for the same thing! And that's just the base charge that you're going to pay regardless, anything on top of that is extra. I literally spent thousands of dollars when Jimmy was sick.

Just so you know they do a few things in the PE that you probably can't do yourself, such as opening the mouth to evaluate the choanal slit, listening to the heart and lungs with a stethoscope, feeling the condition of the abdomen and checking inside the ears. But yes, it's a lot to pay for a physical exam.

As a note they will also check how prominent the keel bone is to evaluate weight and if they say it's normal ask to feel it yourself. That way you have a first-hand reference of how a normal keel feels and you can check it yourself on a weekly basis to make sure it's not protruding too much (weight loss and probably a sick bird) or becoming too buried in the surrounding tissue (overweight bird). Mind you, you can only check for this if your bird will allow that type of handling. One of mine will not and I doubt Diggy will but Nika will probably be okay.

This is from a sheet my vet distributes: "A chemistry panel is a test to determine how the internal organs, such as the liver, kidneys, and pancreas, are functioning. This test also screens for cholesterol, diabetes and low blood calcium levels."

You might also consider a chlamydiophila (psittacosis) test as a bird can be infected but show no symptoms. However, if the infection is latent they can show symptoms later and psittacosis can cause liver failure very quickly.

It's pretty ridiculous that they won't give you pricing over the phone. I don't see why they won't give you pricing if you ask them specifically, "How much is an avian CBC, how much is an avian chemistry panel, how much is a psittacosis test?" Just as a reference I pay $80.95 for a CBC and plasma protein, $115.60 for a chemistry panel, and $60.50 for a psittacosis test.

Establishing a baseline in a healthy bird (especially a baseline white blood cell count) can be invaluable for if your bird ever does get sick in the future. These tests are expensive and I understand you may not want to have them annually (and to be honest I have the CBC and chemistry panel every 2 years due to the expense) but in a new bird it can be pretty important to have them at least once.

[Grey_Moon]

For me, personally although the first line of defense is a good diet and keeping environmental toxins/stressors to a minimum I am a firm and strong believer in preventative medicine.

$65 is actually what I pay for a yearly exam at my local exotics clinic (it is pretty good---most in the area can be 75-90+). If it helps, look for a smaller clinic, not an 'animal super hospital' that has every piece of equipment under the sun. You want a small clinic that can do basic testing/bloodwork and exams while being able to be referred for specialty things like ultrasounds etc. The tradeoff is the smaller clinic will charge less.

Jacko goes yearly for three things: a CBC, a avian biochemistry panel and an x-ray.

The CBC will give you general immune status. It counts the different types of blood cells and from that you can spot changes that point to allergies, anemia, certain infections, inflammation, cancer etc.

The biochemistry will give you organ system status and nutrient status. It gives you different markers like calcium levels, protein levels, sodium, potassium, tests for different proteins/enzymes which correlate to the organs (an excess of XYZ enzyme could tell you either that the liver is disease or malfunctioning etc) and things like that. Uric acids, triglycerides and cholesterol is also tested.

The x-ray will catch inflammations/calcification/dilations/distentions etc.

Between these three things we can get a pretty good picture of her health from year to year and make corrections/do more testing if we discover something.
I keep each year's bloodwork and x-ray on hand for comparison, as does my vet, so we can keep an eye on things.

I personally think its a necessity, just like it is with people.
Yearly little preventative things to keep an eye on it. Turning a blind eye to that sort of thing means you don't see a bad trend until its too late. Like for example, if I hadn't caught Jacko's heart thing she could be in a very bad way right now, but we did, and we took steps to correct it. A bird who's liver begins to show signs of stress can be helped and the outcome changed, instead of it being rushed to the vet with liver failure etc.