Socializing my baby bird

[Pajarita]

That include us then? Technically we are predators to these birds that share our lives, yet even the parent reared ones may show no fear of us or be caused no stress from our presence, why then can they not be conditioned to other things in a way that causes minimal stress?

Believe me when I say I believe very very strongly in welfare issues as if you read back through my posts you will discover, hell I have birds in my care that I believe should never have been captive animals in the first place, doesn't matter to me that they were born in captivity but they are with me because they cannot be released.

Then of course there are those birds that will always fear humans and their actions to some extent, My Harlie girl is one of those but I can tell you now thanks to my hard work she is a hell of alot less stressed and more adaptable than she used to be. When i first got her I couldn't even walk in the opposite side of my 18 foot living room without her throwing herself around the cage blindly. No sorry I dont think I will ever ever believe that deliberately putting them in a position where the unknown may scare them so much will ever be a good thing. Of course a parrot who is already used to humans will be slightly more adaptable to a new owner and lifestyle, say if the previous one dies, but its still going to be a great big massive trauma than it needs to be. Gentle conditioning at a young age and older can help that bird imo. Its took 6 long years to even get Harlie to begin to trust me in a way I could handle her I moved so slow and didn't want to stress her too much, any change freaked her, I think its more important to avoid that if possible. She takes to new stuff with much less freaking out now, we had a visitor here tonight that she had never met before but she went and sat right up close to him, that seems much better for the long term imo.

For one thing, wild parrots do not consider human predators UNLESS they have been exposed to them in the past and the ones they had been exposed to acted like predators (there are parrots in my country of birth). For another, even parent-raised birds are imprinted to humans - to a lesser degree than hand-fed ones but it's still there.

And yes, of course that you can get a scared bird to trust you over time but that is not the same as exposing the bird to strangers all the time. One thing is repetition of the same element and another is introducing new elements all the time - VERY different.

As to visitors coming in and the birds not been scared of them, of course it happens! Mine hardly ever see strangers (maybe four or five times a year) but, when they do, they don't freak out at all -and all my birds are rescues and virtually all of them considered unadoptable by rescues but this is not because I purposedly expose them to strangers until they no longer did but because they feel secure in their 'territory' (birdroom), my presence and the identical schedule every single day. Like I said, in my personal opinion, the less change, the less stress the bird lives under and the stronger, healthier and better adjusted he will be in the long run.

I have to disagree on rehoming been a 'big massive trauma' though... I've never found it to be so UNLESS they go from good to bad conditions and that is entirely up to us, humans. Birds are very pragmatic and intelligent animals and get used very fast and quite happily to better conditions and love.

[Strawfrawg]

You guys clearly know way more about this than I do, but when I watch Marvin's behavior it's clear to me that he is happiest when he is doing what his flock (me, my boyfriend, my housemate, and my dogs) are doing. Marvin is hugely imprinted on me and watches what I do as though he is learning from his mother. It seems it causes him much more stress when he is *not* allowed/encouraged to join in social activity, and when he has had enough of something or someone new he simply flies back to me ot to his cage. He may have his share of wild instincts, but so do my dogs to some extent. It doesn't seem logical to keep a handraised bird that is a thoroughly integrated part of my household away from anything we are doing that doesn't threaten immediate harm. He is, after all, part of the family and is just as psychologically attuned to that as he is any residual traces of his wild origins.

Just watching how little Marvin in learing his world tells me violumes about how adaptable he is. I always appreciate hearing other opinions, though. That's why I'm here and I thank you, Pajarita, for sharing your views!

[marie83]

I'm still not convinced by your points when I've seen parrots rip all their feathers out just because their owners went on holiday or put a new perch in the cage. I've seen plenty of birds in rescues that have never adapted to their new circumstances and also pet birds who were given to the aviary at the place I volunteered at because they were hormonal and the owners thought they should be used as breeders, again alot of those never settled, not to mention all the birds that are passed from home to home. Alot of it is down to how the homes treat them but not always.

Of course there are plenty of parrots who are fine by new things anyway but there are also plenty who are not. So why stress out the ones who are not by not preparing them.

[Dean0]

My birds favorite treat is cherries, I always keep some on hand for when new people come over. The initial reluctance is diminished after a piece of cherry from the stranger.

[Eric&Rebecca]

I have always socailised my birds. One thing that's good with this is I have received compliments on this forum and from AV's about how well behaved and relaxed my birds are at examinations. This is partly down to taming but also because our birds are social and not fazed by new people/new things. Its thus easier for the vet to tell when something is wrong with our birds because then this personality changes, like when Edmund hurt his foot, he wasn't quite the same.

I have only achieved this by gradually socializing my birds. Any other way and like Marie83 says I could have ended up with all sorts of problems. Marie83 has had her fair share of this so I really credit her opinion and have to compliment her socialisation efforts from a bird that quite frankly DID see people as a predator. Rehomes are traumatic as is moving anywhere of change for bird- I've seen it firsthand as has Marie83. Ok its not like that everytime, horray for that, but sometimes (more often) it is- at least in both of our experiences

Birds are quite neurotic when it comes to change particularly those of the cockatoo-cockatiel and Aussie parakeet. For this reason I DO socailize my birds, one parent raised (which I tamed down) and one hand raised. It makes them more accustomed to change and socialising. When people come over my birds are actually glad to see new people! Had I not prepared them beforehand I would not be able to do this. It was a gradual process and no two birds ahve ever reacted or been the same.

I appreciate there are different opinions on the subject and each bird is an individual as is each owner therefore the processes and methods differ. Aside from obvious exceptions there should be no absolutes given to people trying to learn (unless necessary when something is very wrong). That's what this forum is about people giving different ideas and thus producing researched opinions to help others.

Like the things with the diets, we all research our different pellets or like with toys we all research differnt making options and then make our own decisions based on others ideas and help fellow bird owners.

As Marie83 outlines different birds do differnt things and she present s this as an opinion not a simple as that fact because she chooses not to take a certain approach- no one formula can be applied. Just because its the approach I would take it doesn't mean that my method must be completely and utterly correct. I don't think anyone can really make that claim no matter how many parrots we've owned. Short of an avian behaviourist that's not going to happen either. Although I have to admit most of Michael's methods are pretty fail safe! :p

To the original poster; try different things and see what works for you. If you're doing something fundamentally wrong we'd all tell you. Take our opinions as lessons we have learend from experience and advice from a certain perspective and research them for yourself, your bird has its own little personality just like you so let him take the lead and see what works with him. Even if that's different to what someone has said if it works in a postive way for your bird then great. Good Luck

[Strawfrawg]

Thanks, Rebecca. And everybody. Good discussion and all points very thoughtful.

This is just an update on the subject since it came up at my avian vet's last week...only *reporting* here...I just thought it was an opinion worth repeating for the 30+ years' experience he (a smart, thoughtful guy, Cornell trained and constantly pursuing continuing education) has with birds of all types. Note he was careful to qualify his remarks...since he described my own bird's circumstances and I wasn't trying to disprove a side, I didn't ask about other situations.

I took Marvin in for, of all things, a nasty papercut on his foot. Both Doc and assistants commented on how calm and well-behaved Marvin was despite his apparnt discomfort. He was happy to hop onto whomever needed to see him and he was comfortable enough to grate his beak while sitting on my shoulder around busy, strange bodies. Doc asked me if I socialize the bird often and I said I have been doing it from the start. I asked what he thought about the matter and he said, "The answer is right there on your shoulder."

In his 30 years of practice with hundreds of birds, he has found that at least in the case of single-owner birds brought home as chicks, socialization with "any number of" (gentle) people seems to make for calmer and easier patients...especially when injured, which he says is when it ultimately matters most. He noted that every bird has its own unique personality, but says that any bird not fresh from a trauma should at least be given the chance to meet some "well-briefed" new people until/unless a pattern of "significant discomfort" is demonstrated. I asked about the 'predator/prey' and 'flock' angles and he said, "That's overcomplicated human stuff. Keep it simple and just listen to your own bird."