Recent photos of Stitch and Leroy

[janetafloat]

They're both very beautiful, and look in great condition...and yes, there they are hanging out on the floor...so much for my theory! I have so much respect for the hard work and care you've put into your birds, thanks for sharing with us. And loving the photos, keep em coming

[Pajarita]

Actually, here is an edited response.

Looking good but the pi has an overgrown top beak, have you noticed that?

Do you consider everyone except yourself uneducated twats? Its not that I dont agree with you, which I often do in many discussions, but that you always assume that people dont know anything. It's annoying and to be honest, it doesnt make you look good. I might read too much into your comment, but they are always of a certain condescending tone which I think is ill chosen.

Of course Ive noticed how his beak looks, its my bird which I spend hours with everyday.
I've had various concerns over it during the past year (which Ive posted forum threads about), and had him examined by an avian vet.

His beak seems to grow faster than normal, despite shredding wooden toys like crazy, which is why he's been at an avian vet two times this year for grooming, as per my post above.

The avian vet, who is considered one of the best and acknowledged by many peers, didnt see any reason for concern and thought I was fussing. They groomed the beak quite alot last time, but I still think its slightly too long, but the vet doesnt think its anything to worry about. He also commented on the thickness, but said it's nothing, and just a quirk in his beak growth.

It's likely that we have to visit the vet more frequently than usual for beak grooming.

But thank you for being such a know-it-all, racking down on people and spoiling a nice thread with photos I like and wanted to share.

Cheerio.

No, I don't think that everybody else is an 'uneducated twat' but been educated in avian physiology is not common, even among bird keepers and even among avian vets (and I include everybody -myself, too- in the 'avian ignorant crowd'), and you would be hugely surprised at the immense number of people who have birds with medical issues and are completely unaware of the fact. And to compound the problem, even people with experience who might realize something is wrong would not say anything because most of them want to please other people (look good, as you put it) so they, themselves, will be liked and often don't say what they should when it comes to what they see or don't see in birds pictures/posting/etc.

I am sorry that you were offended by my comment but, in my personal experience (over 20 years and more than 300 birds -and, as you can surmise, with no personal need whatsoever to be liked by strangers) there is one reason and one reason alone why parrots' beak become overgrown and it's liver malfunction. It has nothing to do with the beak's integrity/sturdiness, housing, environment or how much wood they chew, it has solely to do with the liver not been able to metabolize all the protein they ingest (these birds often have what we call 'bad' molts and claws that grow too fast, also). I know you said that your vet grooms the beak and saw no reason for concern but, if I were you, I would ask him to do a bile acids test on him because unless one was done within six months and showed a normal range, chances are, there is something going on there.

Furthermore, as to 'good and respected' avian vets infallibility, let me tell you that I had an Orange Winged Amazon which died because the best Avian Vet in Pennsylvania (a professor of Avian Medicine in its university) mis-diagnosed him even though I took him three times in a row because I was concerned (his chemistry panel did not show abnormal levels of liver enzymes until one month before his death from liver failure) so I have learned to question their diagnosis.

When it comes to birds welfare, I will always put it before their owners feelings. It doesn't work sometimes because for some reason I don't understand (and I am not been facetious about this, I am truly at a loss when it comes to this subject and I am sure it's because of a defective psychological makeup on my part), people take offense instead of worrying when somebody tells them there might be something wrong with their bird instead of reacting with Ohhhs and Ahhhs but I would feel I did the bird a disservice if I didn't say anything. So I did. My part is done, you have all the necessary information and the ball is now on your court.

[cml]

And to compound the problem, even people with experience who might realize something is wrong would not say anything because most of them want to please other people (look good, as you put it

You misinterpreted what I wrote. I dont mind that you told me of the issue, but rather of how you put it. Its not that hard to be informative and nice at the same time, a condescending tone isnt necassary.

I am sorry that you were offended by my comment but, in my personal experience (over 20 years and more than 300 birds -and, as you can surmise, with no personal need whatsoever to be liked by strangers) there is one reason and one reason alone why parrots' beak become overgrown and it's liver malfunction. It has nothing to do with the beak's integrity/sturdiness, housing, environment or how much wood they chew, it has solely to do with the liver not been able to metabolize all the protein they ingest (these birds often have what we call 'bad' molts and claws that grow too fast, also)

This is good information, and I will ask my vet for a bile acid test, and consult him again regarding the beak.
You having owned 300 birds scares me more than impresses me though, it suggests hoarding even if you've been running a rescue.

Furthermore, as to 'good and respected' avian vets infallibility, let me tell you that I had an Orange Winged Amazon which died because the best Avian Vet in Pennsylvania (a professor of Avian Medicine in its university) mis-diagnosed him even though I took him three times in a row because I was concerned (his chemistry panel did not show abnormal levels of liver enzymes until one month before his death from liver failure) so I have learned to question their diagnosis.

I agree, questioning a diagnosis can be beneficial to some degree, but we also have to trust someone at one point - and a well educated and respected avian vet is probably a better source than most.

When it comes to birds welfare, I will always put it before their owners feelings. It doesn't work sometimes because for some reason I don't understand (and I am not been facetious about this, I am truly at a loss when it comes to this subject and I am sure it's because of a defective psychological makeup on my part), people take offense instead of worrying when somebody tells them there might be something wrong with their bird instead of reacting with Ohhhs and Ahhhs but I would feel I did the bird a disservice if I didn't say anything. So I did.

Again, its not that hard to understand and you should be able to grasp the underlying fundamentals. You can convey a message in many ways, it doesnt have to be said in a condescending way - I can promise you that you will find it a rewarding personal development if you give it a go.

My part is done, you have all the necessary information and the ball is now on your court.

Aye, and thank you for the information. I will consult with my avian vet, and take both birds in for a test if thats whats needed. If its liver related, it could be something caused by either diet or their environment - which means that Stitch could be afflicted as well.

[WeasleyLover]

They are both so gorgeous! I love their names!

[Pajarita]

You complain about my being rude when all I did was ask if you had noticed that one of your birds has an overgrown beak and right after that you imply I am a hoarder? You do realize that it's an insult, don't you? No, I am not a hoarder and I'll tell you why. Hoarding has nothing to do with the number of animals you have, it has to do with the care you give them. Hoarders do not give away any of their animals and they never stop taking more in, they don't provide medical attention, a good diet/housing/environmental conditions. Hoarders never admit to the actual number of animals they keep and don't allow people to see them. None of that applies to me. But to clarify, I did not have over 300 birds at one point, I had over 240 when I had the most. I say that I have handled over 300 to be conservative but, in reality, if I count all the passerines, columbines, galliformes, etc (I worked in a zoo) I've cared for over the years, I am sure the number goes up to 500 easily. And, believe it or not, 240 birds is a pretty 'normal' number for any bird rescue and not unmanageable if they live cage-free and in flocks (at that time I had flocks of tiels, lovies and budgies of 30 to 40 birds each).

And, to put the icing on the cake, I've had three USDA inspections as well as ASPCA and Animal Control officers check my house and animals and I did not only pass them all with flying colors, both the USDA and the SPCA inspectors said they had never seen a better birdroom.

[cml]

You complain about my being rude when all I did was ask if you had noticed that one of your birds has an overgrown beak and right after that you imply I am a hoarder? You do realize that it's an insult, don't you?

I want to appologize for implying that you are a hoarder, it was rash and a result of me being quite irritated with you.

But there you have it then, the word "hoarder" has hurt your pride. They say that the pencil is mightier than the sword, and it seems the keyboard can be as well.
That is exactly my point, the way we phrase, say or write things MATTER.
You can convey a message in a better way than writing with an elitistic and condescending undertone.

I also want to point out that it wasnt your single reply to this thread that caused me to question your way of communicating, but that many of your comments have this kind of undertone, which I dont think benefits either you or the forum (because many of the points you bring up are valid((even if I dont always agree with you), and with a better way of telling them, more people would take them to heart). Would you please at least consider how you put things?

Again, I appologize if you were offended by my comment.

Now can we stop this debate, it doesnt add anything of value, and its likely that we'll just end up saying worse and worse things. I would rather have it that we call it a truce. Are you game for that, or shall we continue to destroy a thread that I originally was proud of?

[Michael]

I like the low depth of field look.

Now go get us some in flight shots.