Quigley

[mikella]

I'm back.

(Some background for those interested who were not following my old thread - approx. 6 year old adopted male Cinnamon Green Cheek Conure who was neglected for about the last 1.5 years of his life until we took him last March. He always lived with other birds - budgies and a cockatiel in same cage. Very aggressive until a few months ago. HABITUAL biter. But lives for head scratches, sweet boy. Clipped his whole life.)

Long overdue update on Quigley... (Typing with one hand as, as a few of you will know, this is just how it is, he must be on one hand. Will be brief, but I've been putting this off far too long.)

He is STILL molting. This is not normal. However, as of just two days ago, he has officially lost the LAST of his clipped flight feathers!!!

He is flying when he is startled and when I put him on the floor (he really dislikes this but I'm trying to help him build muscle tone/lung capacity/etc.)... When he flies from the floor, he just flies to me. But otherwise, lots of crashes He gets very overwhelmed when in the air, takes so much out of him and so much brain power that he can't think about where to land, poor boy. He can fly about ten feet at a time before losing strength.

Will go on my shoulder if I have a treat, but immediately after eating it gets angry about being there or will crawl right back down my arm. He hates my shoulder. This makes my life (still) very difficult.

He has a shower with me each day and loves it. It is the ONE TIME each day that he can be with me but not on me and still be content. Otherwise, he has a FIT to be physically on me. So, shower time is happy time for us both!

Diet is still not how I'd like it to be.... It's a struggle. He eats his grains and corn, doesn't touch the veggies. So I still purée organic veggies and feed them to him that way. Loves fruit. Seeds before bed. Same.

Aggression is creeping back again (biting never stopped, but the pure aggression died down several months back).

Still obsessed with my husband, still can't see that changing. But he gets the worst of the bites still, even though he is the favourite.

Solar schedule as always.

So, overall, yes there has been progress! But it has been the hardest 8-9 months of my life (and his too I'm sure). I just keep telling myself that this will all be ok someday... My day consists of carting him around with me on one hand, sitting with him with him on my lap touching one hand... Every move is calculated bc of his bites. Please tell me that someday he will hang out on my shoulder and I can have freedom around the house. That is what I want for him and myself. I know it's in him.

He is as beautiful as ever. He has the sweetest eyes I've ever seen. I love him to pieces. He is funny, very smart, bratty, sneaky.

Will be back soon. Would love to hear from some of you!

[Pajarita]

Hey! Welcome back! Great to hear from you and Quigley! He will continue to improve, Mikella. In my personal experience, it takes about two years for an adopted bird with issues to start 'settling down'. Don't worry about the long molt, it's just a consequence of his bad previous diet - his body is 'adjusting' its internal season clock, he will be fine next year. And great news about his flying! Yes, it will take a while for him to master it because atrophied muscles and tendons don't just miraculously 'come back', it takes exercise and as much as we allow them to fly inside a house, it's never the same as in the wild so everything takes a bit longer - but he will get there. Do you have stands or perches for him to land on around the house? You might want to put a few extra ones at the beginning so the distance between them is not long and, as time goes by and you see he is flying better, you can start removing some but his flying a distance of 10 feet is great!

I know that you say that he is still bitey but I remember when you first got him and Lordy was he a holy terror, wasn't he? He has gotten so much better! Kudos to you and your husband for it! Can you imagine if he had ended up with somebody who did not have the patience and commitment you have? He would be a breeder in somebody's basement, poor thing!

[mikella]

It feels so good to be back and hear from you. I need this.

Ok, well, if it takes approximately two years, we've got almost one out of the way! And yes, Pajarita, holy terror he sure was! Now he's just a terror He is the sauciest thing you'd ever meet! So bossy. But so funny and lovable. He's such a big baby.

He has plenty of proper places to land, at least in the kitchen area where we are a lot of the time, but he stays high when he flies and won't drop down to land, so he ends up flying until his body can't take it anymore and then just flopping somewhere out of exhaustion Sometimes, however, he will land on his big cage as that is the tallest thing. Maybe that's the key - figuring out some high places for him to land. I'll see what we can do. This may be the key.

Any tips on helping him learn a NICE way to ask to be scratched?

Every emotion/desire/etc. = nips and bites of varying degrees. Excited? Bite. Want a scratch? Nip nip nip NIP. Annoyed at me? Bite. I didn't ask you to talk to me - Bite. His self control is better than it used to be, but biting is such a default behaviour still for him.

Also, any tips on helping ease him onto my shoulder? Or just leave that idea for now still? (The smart bugger knows the word shoulder. Do not ask me how because I never taught it to him, but he has figured it out - he will go up there if I say shoulder and he knows a treat is near, or he will go up as I walk over to the treats, or to avoid being put down while I do something... But he hates it and crawls down as soon as possible/as soon as he's gobbled his seed).

Pajarita, yes - There is no doubt in my mind that if someone else had taken him, he would have been passed to yet another person, put online in an ad, shoved in a cage in a dark corner left to cry..... He's stuck with me now. We're getting through it somehow.

[seagoatdeb]

Any tips on helping him learn a NICE way to ask to be scratched?

Every emotion/desire/etc. = nips and bites of varying degrees. Excited? Bite. Want a scratch? Nip nip nip NIP. Annoyed at me? Bite. I didn't ask you to talk to me - Bite. His self control is better than it used to be, but biting is such a default behaviour still for him.

Also, any tips on helping ease him onto my shoulder? Or just leave that idea for now still? (The smart bugger knows the word shoulder. Do not ask me how because I never taught it to him, but he has figured it out - he will go up there if I say shoulder and he knows a treat is near, or he will go up as I walk over to the treats, or to avoid being put down while I do something... But he hates it and crawls down as soon as possible/as soon as he's gobbled his seed).

Glad he has you, he is a very lucky bird. GGC do have a tendency to be nippy, but you dont want the biting thats for sure. They are really flock oriented birds, and birds that like a lot of attention, so they want to get along. They are usually helped with biting by teaching them the difference between gentle and hard. I use a system of saying too hard and not giving a reward for too hard. I use "nice Kiss" for appropriated pressure, but any word will work. Reward gentler beak contacts with saying "good Bird" or a treat.

I expect he will want to ride on your shoulder some day, GGC love to be on shoulders usually, its nice and high and they are really affected by high and low.

[Pajarita]

Yes, I agree with Seagoat. He will, one day, want to be on your shoulder all the time. I think that his climbing down from it is not so much that he doesn't like it but something that was taught to him.

By all means, do put high perches around the house. Mine would fly from one high place to another (the top of a door, the fridge, a painting frame on the wall, the coat hanger hooks by the door, a lamp shade, a cage, etc) so I am sure that if there are a few perches up high for him to land on, he will.

As to his biting, what I do is complain about the biting or nipping too hard (and, with the amazons, when they lunge even if they don't get me) with a loud and firm "OUCH! Bad bird! Don't bite!" accompanied by a sudden movement of my body to call his attention to the action, wait a few seconds and follow it with a "Be a good boy for momma! You a good boy? Yeah... you a good boy... a good boy!" in a sweet and soft voice. I do the same thing with the dogs, I scold and then I forgive and give my love. It takes time with the hard nuts to crack but it has always worked for me sooner or later.

[mikella]

Shoulder - I say he doesn't like it because once his treat is finished, if he doesn't climb right down, he starts lunging at my face and making his 'irritated' chirps (or starts attacking my hair). Today he was on it for a very brief time without becoming agitated though - maybe 20 seconds. It was his low energy time, so maybe that helped.

Biting - Yes, ok, what you both said makes sense. I thought maybe progress has been so slow because I am lenient with him, but this reassures me. He communicates with me now, I am really beginning to see - I can talk him out of biting with a warning sometimes. He looks at me and changes what he's doing, he'll 'nibble' more gently or just start rubbing his head on my skin..... Haha testy bugger. But I think this is huge because it's starting to show me that he understands and wants to listen to me - shows that there is a bond there. So I will keep doing what I'm doing, and put him in his cage when it's a nasty bite or hurts. He had gone quite a long time without giving me a nasty bite until recently. Exactly what happens is this: he will be cuddled up to one hand, content, then be eyeing my other hand just laying there on my lap not moving, then charge at that other hand and bite it. So seeing my hand laying there clearly irritated him for whatever reason. That said, he still hasn't drawn blood (at least with me) for a pretty long time. They're good little bites, but no blood. Husband still gets the bloody bites/worse bites. He has much less self control and patience with husband, likely because I spend all my time with him, husband isn't around much.

One behaviour I've always wondered about - you know that snakey/long outstretched neck/body and they wave slowly up and down and back and forth - some people refer to it as a 'cobra' type move - Quigley tends to use this when he is super excited. Is this an aggressive behaviour at all? At some points I thought it was, and didn't encourage it - but he seems to find it so funny when I find it funny haha He seems to love doing it. Also, pacing with droopy wings. ?? With this one, I wait until he is calm to let him on me as I don't trust it as much.

I'm hesitant to add this because I'm not entirely sure, but I THINK I got my first kiss from Quigley yesterday. He was on my hand and my hand was close to my face, he was making little kiss noises, then stopped and leaned towards my face a few times, so I let him touch my face. And all he did was a little touch with his closed beak. .....I didn't try it anymore to confirm but I think it was a 'moment.'

[seagoatdeb]

You should not be too lenient with a GCC. They are always testing for top bird and they cant be the top bird, it has to be you. They will run rough shod over you, if they havent respected your status. Be clear with your rules, and dont reward bad behavior, only good behavior and he will come around. GGC can be the most adorable parrots when they are secure and know you are the one they rely on. it will happen, try to have patience, I know it can be hard sometimes. I am so happy to hear of the moment, they are just so loveable. One of the things I noticed the most in differences, between Pois and conures is that conures will nip when they get excited. Poi don't tend to nip when excited, Pois nip when they don't like something, especially feeling jealous.

[Pajarita]

I wouldn't count too much on teaching him that you are the 'top bird' and not him because, as there is no hierarchical structure in their flocks, the dominance behavior is simply not there, genetically speaking. I think that when they stop biting is not so much that they 'gave up' their top tier in the pecking order but that they simply have bonded with their humans, learn to trust them and don't want/feel the need to hurt them so I think that you are going in the right direction. It will just take time, that's all.

And yes, that sounded like a 'moment' to me, too!

[seagoatdeb]

I am talking about flock dyanmics, so the top bird is an analogy. Parrots beak each other for dominance. But a bird can not be a leader type in our home, just like a child couldnt be the leader. Some birds will want to please you and other birds will test more. Conures especially will get very nippy if they dont see you as superior to them. My baby Meyers went through a test phase with me, he would nip, and I wod say too hard in a fir voice and then touch him somewhere later when he was in a good mood and say "nice kiss" Later that became, "too hard" and "nice kiss" and i would touch his beak gently when i said nice kiss. So now when he is grouchy, and the only time he is grouchy now is when i have to wake him up to put him in his cage at night. He will hiss at me and I say "nice Kiss" and he becomes gentle. Right now my daughter has a conure and he wil often get nippy, when he gets excited, or when he gets upset. She is firmer with him when he gets nippy and he returns to the sweet conure again. Conures really are nice parrots to have,

[mikella]

I have to agree with you Pajarita, that it's about bond. He knows it hurts me, but we're just starting to bond... For the first time the other week I saw what seemed to be concern from him - I jammed my finger in the door and it frigging hurt and he looked at me quiet, a little sad-ish, very interested, wouldn't take his eyes off my finger... It seemed to me like concern. Yet, when he bites me, even if I get teary, he's not quite there yet..... He doesn't quite care THAT much haha In his mind, I deserved the bite for whatever reason. So the fact that he hurt me doesn't register all that much.

Just now, he pulled that move I mentioned - he gets mad at my idle hand and charges it and BITE. So irritating that he's going back to being like that. But, I've learned, there are constant ups and downs.

I just put him in for a few minutes. Bugger.

Seagoatdeb - I like the 'nice kiss' thing, touching his beak. He's used to me pressing his beak while I scratch him, so will try this. I say 'sweet boy' and he definitely understands the gist of this because I always say it when puts his head down to be scratched as opposed to demanding with nips haha I use 'gentle' as a warning. Like I said before, I think he's slowly starting to 'get' this stuff......